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Apple's Mistake

paulgraham.com

161–170 of 285 posts

Re: Apple's Mistake

#161
post #29

Though I can't marshall any evidence to support this claim, it was specifically not my impression that Apple was a company pro developers loved working with before the iPhone.

In high school, I thought that the CodeWarrior IDE (which was, as far as I knew, the dominant development environment) was absolutely terrible. I'm not sure how good my judgment at that time was. That said, with OS X they really became a lot more developer friendly just because they adopted a UNIX base. At this point, I'd say they're the default platform for ruby/web development. Look at all the rails job postings fo…

Yeah, I have terrible experiences with codewarrior as well. I had one programming class in the late 90s that required macs and boy did that make me hate macs with a passion.

But I dont think it was purely a codewarrior issue. The overall apple OS at that time was simply terrible and 10 years behind windows (i wont even count how far behind unix they were) -- they still could not get multitasking to work right. Which meant that any pointer error causes your computer to hang. And when you are coding for a data structures class in C all of your errors are pointer errors.

So I am sure a lot of developers abandoned the mac platform around those times, but maybe many of them are coming back now.

Re: Apple's Mistake

#162
post #10

A customer recently asked me to look into a program that used to run in 5 minutes but now took 1 to 4 hours. It's used by thousands of people all over the world all day long. It iterated through an array doing 3 SQL SELECTs against non-indexed files for each element. There used to be about 50 elements in the array; now there were more than 5000. I rewrote the whole thing in one day to do a total of 4 SELECTs and run…

We programmers are a funny lot. Make us struggle for business or technical reasons and we adapt beautifully. Make us struggle for something stupid and we just get pissed off and do something else.

This is the best YC quote of all time. Thx, edwin!

Re: Apple's Mistake

#163
post #61

Part of Paul's reasoning depends on Apps being central to the iPhone experience the same way software is central to the desktop experience. I'm not totally sure this is the case. While apps are certainly a major component to the iPhone, are they really the major factor in end-user adoption? With the exception of games, how many killer iPhone apps are there that don't already ship with the phone? The phone shipped for…

It may not have started out as central to the experience, but I think that it's starting to quickly become just that and Apple knows this or at least they want it to be. So far all the recent iPhone commercials I've seen only focus on the thousands of apps you can get for the iphone - not the iphone's "awesome" feature set. I was looking at a friend's iphone the other day and I saw page after page of 3rd party applic…

What's funny is that in the beginning, Apple didn't even want to provide an API for native applications. They wanted all developers to use the Web API. When developers balked at that idea Apple reluctantly laid out plans for native applications.

I wouldn't believe that for a minute. The App Store would have been part of the iPhone product plan from day 1. It's too big, too complex, too strategic, and (yes) too well-executed to be a panicked response to developers' demands.

That's how Apple under Jobs has always done things: major features are not "supported" or "planned" or "offered" or "part of the company's philosophy"... at least, not until they appear out of nowhere one day.

Re: Apple's Mistake

#164
Paul Graham criticizes the App Store, which is significant because it's a rare instance of a person with such major hacker street cred and no vested interest in the platform putting in their two cents...

... then he gives a really insane Request for Startups: http://ycombinator.com/rfs5.html. I think the current upper limit for input bandwidth on a 4-inch or so screen means that you would really have to invent something not seen before. Moreover, given the stubborn habits of the top hackers, you can't have significant adoption with an 80% solution. And you really need to go after top hackers who influence others to get significant adoption by programmers.

(Not to mention that ideally you need RFS5 users to be able to develop for things that aren't RFS5 or generic Unix. Otherwise you just end up with an adoption rate similar to Linux. Possibly even lower, if people have to buy your hardware.)

I'm thinking of the fact that all top hackers have some kind of Holy Revered Tool on which they are dependent for their workflow. These might be large, clicky keyboards, vim, Emacs, or TextMate. Even if any given Holy Revered Tool is used by 5% of important hackers, ALL important hackers have SOME kind of Holy Revered Tool.

This means that the hypothetical RFS5 device would have to capable of running, at minimum, vim and Emacs, with trivial compatibility between the new handheld version and the old desktop versions (because the top hackers have years and years of muscle memory and customization that they want to make use of without months of retraining/rewriting).

If I were to spend time thinking about it I would broaden the problem somewhat:

- Alternative Goal 1 - invent some kind of user interface that smoothly scales from handheld devices to small notebooks (not just netbooks, but even something like a Macbook). The exact same software automagically squeezes into a handheld, and stretches to fill a notebook. Make sure you can put the OS on some commonly used notebooks. (Maybe even focus on easily supporting scenarios like dual-booting a Mac?) You could have a notebook computer running the software, and a companion handheld device, with really tight integration between the two, hopefully down to the level of closing your notebook, and having all of your open apps - the exact same session - in your pocket.

- Alternative Goal 2 - create a distinct mobile experience, but have really, really good sync to all desktop operating systems. Not an 80% solution, a 100% solution. Make it possible to sync anything, really easily. If you use iPhone you can only easily sync it with Apple stuff. If you use Android you can only easily sync it with Google stuff. If you use WebOS you have a slightly wider choice of services, but they're all cloud services and hackers might be paranoid about that. All of these platforms only sync a limited range of stuff. If you want to sync something else you have to wait for Apple/Google/Palm to decide that you're a significant market segment. Not to mention that (for Apple/Palm particularly) much of the data that is on the device is locked down. Want to bet how long it's going to take for Apple to allow their email client to view a Scheme/Haskell/Clojure source file someone sent you? How about Arc source code? How about if you want to edit a .txt attachment and forward it to someone else?

Alternative Strategy 2, by the way, might be useful as an intermediate measure to get more of your hacking stuff onto the device so you can more realistically evaluate, as a resourceful programmer as opposed to a regular consumer, what wonderful things you might be able to do with it that appeal to you in particular, and that Apple's restricted (read: lowest common denominator, just versatile enough to be widely adopted and no more) user interface doesn't let you do.

Re: Apple's Mistake

#165
Some food for thought:

"In the short term, individual citizens and groups will pay. But in the long run, you can see they can't win. The very nature of technology is you can't harness it -- not authoritarian leaders, not anyone," Hom continued. "It's like riding a tiger, and you can't get off."

http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,529090,00.html

http://www.techcrunch.com/2009/06/24/censorship-20-china-blo...

Re: Apple's Mistake

#166
post #61

Part of Paul's reasoning depends on Apps being central to the iPhone experience the same way software is central to the desktop experience. I'm not totally sure this is the case. While apps are certainly a major component to the iPhone, are they really the major factor in end-user adoption? With the exception of games, how many killer iPhone apps are there that don't already ship with the phone? The phone shipped for…

> While apps are certainly a major component to the iPhone, are they really the major factor in end-user adoption?

All the ads I've seen lately for the iPhone are of the "there's an app for that" variety. So Apple themselves seem to think that the apps are a critical factor.

That being said, the iPhone sold very well before there were any apps at all.

Re: Apple's Mistake

#167
post #141
post #101

I totally agree with the article. However I wonder what prompted PG to write it. Did one of their startups' apps get rejected recently?

A lot more than one. The App Store is tied with US immigration as the biggest source of complaints I hear from founders.

The App Store is very similar to US immigration control. People are justifying the maddening complexity and the casualties of the system by analogous arguments in both cases. And building a startup around an iPhone application and then having the app kicked from the store is like a less dramatic version of building a startup in the United States and then having a co-founder kicked from the country.

Re: Apple's Mistake

#168
post #94

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't agree. On the desktop there are 'killer apps' like Photoshop, Excel, Quicken, Final Cut, etc. I don't think there are any killer mobile apps yet. Maybe for some it's FourSquare or FB, but I can't think of one app I'd miss that's not built in.

We probably have a different view on what is a killer app. From my perspective: Windows - Outlook Express, IE. OS X - Mail, Safari. I can't recall the last time I fired up "Photoshop, Excel, Quicken, Final Cut" and I bet 90% of randomly selected users couldn't either.

Maybe this theoretical question.

If you polled a random user of, what are the chances you would find an app that they will get very pissed off at it's disappearance?

What are the chances they will actually skip platforms?

On Windows or OSX, I think the answer is high. On iphone, maybe not.

Re: Apple's Mistake

#169
post #72

Laptops displaced desktops?! You are deluded. We develop on 8GB i7s with dual 24" screens. We have one at home and one at work, Remote Desktop-ing from each other. Gigabit ethernet and optical fiber internet. No molasses wifi here. We work FAST, we work HARD. But we use Windows 7 too, so we're not limited to Apple's crappy hardware either...

Although I don't think your comment is true, I do have a question for PG: Did you buy the 27" iMac just to use as a monitor, or for the computer part as well?

Re: Apple's Mistake

#170
Here's how I see the question: When did it suddenly become acceptable for a computer manufacturer to decide what software the customer can run on that computer?

I'm sure the money can be good ... but is that really the road anyone wants to go down? Is it worth having your leg chained to the table?

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