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Cultivated Disinterest in Professional Sports

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Re: Cultivated Disinterest in Professional Sports

#161

Post by RobAtticus »

toolz wrote: post #131
rinon wrote: post #126

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Having a valid reason why some activity is intrinsically bad (e.g. fast food) is very different from disliking such activities because they are "beneath" you. Sports are widely loved and not intrinsically bad. (I'd even argue that fast food itself is not intrinsically bad, but that's a different discussion) However, even expressing contempt for intrinsically bad activities can be interpreted as offensive and hostile.…

Sports are not intrinsically bad? Let's pretend a world without sports for a second. What do you see? I see a world where scientists and philanthropists are common household names. Where kids hero's are astronauts and firemen. I see a world where when someone makes a couple hundred million a year, they don't go immediately bankrupt after retiring because their industry wasn't intrinsically broken. That healthy panhan…

Maybe that's the case if you also got rid of the other professions that make up celebrities: musicians, actors/actresses, etc. I doubt removing just sports would suddenly make scientists/philanthropists household names. You'd essentially have to get rid of all forms of entertainment to do that, which seems a bit ridiculous. Besides, many athletes ARE philanthropists, who work hard to give back to their communities.

As to your last points, you shouldn't recognize athletes who take illicit drugs. Focus on the athletes who do things the right way: work hard, take care of themselves physically and financially, take care of their family/community, and so on.

And besides, what makes you a better arbiter of what is useful to society?

Re: Cultivated Disinterest in Professional Sports

#162

Post by nwienert »

civilian wrote: post #138
rinon wrote: post #126

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Having a valid reason why some activity is intrinsically bad (e.g. fast food) is very different from disliking such activities because they are "beneath" you. Sports are widely loved and not intrinsically bad. (I'd even argue that fast food itself is not intrinsically bad, but that's a different discussion) However, even expressing contempt for intrinsically bad activities can be interpreted as offensive and hostile.…

The amount of commercials required to watch a game of football is intrinsically bad. The tax exempt status of the NFL is intrinsically bad.

But you being a snob about it to other people is also intrinsically bad. Disliking other peoples hobbies that cause no harm to others is intrinsically bad.

Intrinsically bad.

Re: Cultivated Disinterest in Professional Sports

#164

Post by tjradcliffe »

voidlogic wrote: post #35
solson wrote: post #20

When you show overt contempt for sports you are showing contempt for most everybody and that is problem with your social skills. It's called being a snob. The disdain for working class culture among academics was part of the reason I choose not to pursue a formal higher education. I suspect this overt snootiness keeps many gifted working class kids from participating in higher education. I grew up working class and w…

>The disdain for working class culture among academics was part of the reason I choose not to pursue a formal higher education. I don't have statistics, so this is all anecdotal, but most Professors I have gotten to know well have a favorite team or sport etc. The reality you present sounds more like movies than real life. For example, I can see Dr. Epps from Numb3rs being snoody about sports in a way I have never se…

> I don't have statistics, so this is all anecdotal, but most Professors I have gotten to know well have a favorite team or sport etc.

This has been my experience, up to and including a stint at a top tier American university where during the World Series I couldn't have a conversation with anyone, including my elderly Swiss-American academic supervisor, that didn't have a long preamble about how things were going for each team.

I grew up in an (American) football-loving family and still enjoy the game, but knew (and still know) almost nothing about baseball. But I watched that Series just so I could communicate with my American colleagues.

So to describe academics as sports-hating snobs is wildly at odds with (anecdotal) reality.

Re: Cultivated Disinterest in Professional Sports

#165

Post by potatolicious »

belorn wrote: post #57
solson wrote: post #20

When you show overt contempt for sports you are showing contempt for most everybody and that is problem with your social skills. It's called being a snob. The disdain for working class culture among academics was part of the reason I choose not to pursue a formal higher education. I suspect this overt snootiness keeps many gifted working class kids from participating in higher education. I grew up working class and w…

> It's called being a snob I kind of disagree with that label, as it imply that its only is a problem with higher education. The working class show the same overt contempt at people who watch e-sports, snooker, and other sports which isn't directly associated with the working class culture.

Like rinon said, snobbery isn't limited to academia nor educated people.

It's made worse in these contexts because these are the same people who are asked to comment - and sometimes even make policy - on the working class.

It's a little galling when the educated, wealthy, and powerful show contempt for core parts of the culture of groups they are supposed to represent the interests of.

It's also counter-productive, since these educated, wealthy, and powerful people must necessarily engage in dialogue with the working class if their research, policy, or commentary is intended to be accurate or useful.

Re: Cultivated Disinterest in Professional Sports

#166

Post by tuelz »

Goronmon wrote: post #151
toolz wrote: post #117

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Exactly. Sports aren't a healthy part of society. They are games mean to occupy the less curious people of our culture so they don't get bored and dissatisfied with their existence. There is nothing healthy about sports culture. The socialization is entirely tribal and the impact on humanities future is non-existent. Imagine if we game all our attention and praise to teachers and all of our money to successful charit…

Sports aren't a healthy part of society. They are games mean to occupy the less curious people of our culture so they don't get bored and dissatisfied with their existence. You could say the same thing of any form of entertainment that humans have ever engaged in.

Not true, plenty of people enjoy building and inventing.

Re: Cultivated Disinterest in Professional Sports

#167

Post by nerfhammer »

mundizzle wrote: post #129

i always found Chomsky's take on sports to be quite interesting... "Take, say, sports -- that's another crucial example of the indoctrination system, in my view. For one thing because it -- you know, it offers people something to pay attention to that's of no importance. [audience laughs] That keeps them from worrying about -- [applause] keeps them from worrying about things that matter to their lives that they might…

I find this view to be highly overly teleological. The idea that there's really a secret nefarious purpose is one of those extraordinary claims that needs extraordinary evidence

Re: Cultivated Disinterest in Professional Sports

#168

Post by disbelief »

guelo wrote: post #150
mundizzle wrote: post #129

i always found Chomsky's take on sports to be quite interesting... "Take, say, sports -- that's another crucial example of the indoctrination system, in my view. For one thing because it -- you know, it offers people something to pay attention to that's of no importance. [audience laughs] That keeps them from worrying about -- [applause] keeps them from worrying about things that matter to their lives that they might…

I totally agree with Chomsky. It is indoctrination. I always found the routine military displays especially troubling. The American version of the communist dictator's military parade. And then there's the weird government/corporate partnership on stadiums. And the protected monopoly status.

I think you're equating all sports with American Football. Which, granted, is more or less what the original article did as well. I totally agree about the military displays, the nationalism and religious overtones that get mixed in with Football in the US. But that's one sport. There are many others, and aside from probably Nascar, none of them come close to Football in those terms.

Re: Cultivated Disinterest in Professional Sports

#169

Post by ChuckMcM »

wutbrodo wrote: post #101
scotch_drinker wrote: post #61

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It is contempt. It implies that there is no valid reason for liking X. You may not look down on them but when someone says "I don't see how anybody...", that is contempt. Not understanding is vastly different from expressing disbelief that anyone would do a particular thing.

> It implies that there is no valid reason for liking X. This is completely wrong. You're essentially saying here that "I don't understand the valid reason for X" necessarily means "therefore X has no valid reason". I really hope you're just confused here, as opposed to actually believing this line of thought and applying it to things in general. To use my example again, when I say "I don't understand the appeal at a…

This bites me occasionally,

You're essentially saying here that "I don't understand the valid reason for X" necessarily means "therefore X has no valid reason".

The thing that bites me is that I can say something like this and mean it as you do, and yet the person hearing it insists on interpreting incorrectly. I find this is especially true in conversations with a lot of emotional components.

Any time the listener of an assertion on my part that I'm trying to understand fact X, treats it as my asserting that fact X is false, it raises a flag for me to check the emotional content.

In my experience, to understand the appeal of sports (professional or otherwise) you have to understand people who want other people they care about to succeed. Being a parent helped me understand that. Prior to being a parent I was notoriously confused about what the connection was between sports team's success or failure and the outpouring of raw emotion on a large scale.

Re: Cultivated Disinterest in Professional Sports

#170

Post by michael_h »

toolz wrote: post #131
rinon wrote: post #126

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Having a valid reason why some activity is intrinsically bad (e.g. fast food) is very different from disliking such activities because they are "beneath" you. Sports are widely loved and not intrinsically bad. (I'd even argue that fast food itself is not intrinsically bad, but that's a different discussion) However, even expressing contempt for intrinsically bad activities can be interpreted as offensive and hostile.…

Sports are not intrinsically bad? Let's pretend a world without sports for a second. What do you see? I see a world where scientists and philanthropists are common household names. Where kids hero's are astronauts and firemen. I see a world where when someone makes a couple hundred million a year, they don't go immediately bankrupt after retiring because their industry wasn't intrinsically broken. That healthy panhan…

> Where kids hero's are astronauts and firemen

Not sure if you've talked to any kids lately then. My son has a small freak-out if we get near a fireman. If he got to meet an astronaut, I think me might pass out.

...and no, of course sports are not intrinsically bad. They're good exercise, a tremendous amount of fun to play, and they take focus to master. It might not be a skill that you appreciate, but it is a skill nonetheless.

All sports, presumably, sprouted from a few folks having fun and then deciding to codify the rules. Imagining a world without sports is imaging a world without fun.

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