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New Snowden Docs Indicate Scope of NSA Preparations for Cyber Battle

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Re: New Snowden Docs Indicate Scope of NSA Preparations for Cyber Battle

#161

Post by AndrewKemendo »

alextgordon wrote: post #156
AndrewKemendo wrote: post #144

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>we foreign people are just fair game for targeting That's not exactly true in that not every non-U.S. citizen is an interest to the U.S. Government. To your broader point though, the idea that a state's Security, Defense or Military arms are singularly focused on foreign "threats" or potential threats is a fundamental assumption of nearly every international relations theory. Why would you think it would be otherwis…

What the US is doing is extraordinary, mainly because it is the only country with the resources to run the operation that it's running, but also because everybody seems to be infected with fear. If we were talking about Georgia, or Israel, or Ukraine, or Japan, I would understand the fear. But the USA has no enemies, there are no threats. It's a tragic case of paranoia.

But the USA has no enemies, there are no threats.

I am interested in how you came to this conclusion.

Re: New Snowden Docs Indicate Scope of NSA Preparations for Cyber Battle

#162

Post by Rapzid »

pa7ch wrote: post #30

Looking at the comments in support of the NSA here makes me suspect an astroturfing campaign is happening. Edit: I should add that my suspicion came from noticing that the vast majority of the comments when this was first posted seemed aligned in favor of the NSA's mission. It wasn't the presence of pro-NSA comments that was interesting but rather that these opinions were the overwhelming majority. This is, of course…

I've been reading the comments and it looks like typical political bickering. People have been made so polarized on these issues by propaganda, astroturfing, the two party system, mainstream media, and etc. that they can't have a conversation about these topics without going for the throat. Shockingly, or not so shockingly, even on Hacker News we can not seem to have constructive conversations about this stuff.

Re: New Snowden Docs Indicate Scope of NSA Preparations for Cyber Battle

#163

Post by krapp »

srj wrote: post #160
krapp wrote: post #36

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You're probably right. No need to consider the arguments made by people who don't agree entirely with a particular point of view, or even discuss it at all. They're obviously just shills. Edit: Much of the 'pro NSA' comments I see here seem merely to suggest that not everything the NSA does is evil, and not every disclosure is necessarily useful. As often happens in threads like these, any such comments are dismissed…

The parent poster didn't advise ignoring the pro-NSA opinions but gave his opinion that he felt there might be an astroturf campaign. And why follow a comment agreeing that astroturf campaigns are employed with one slanting those pointing it out as 'spooks' and 'paranoid'? I think it's worth reminding fellow readers that this sort of manipulation happens, and likely on HN.

I have a problem with the 'likely' part, because that's where the 'paranoid' comes into play.

What evidence is there that it's likely, other than paranoia?

Re: New Snowden Docs Indicate Scope of NSA Preparations for Cyber Battle

#164

Post by srj »

diminoten wrote: post #124
task_queue wrote: post #120

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I agree that it's best to assume earnestness in opinions, I disagree with your opening. There absolutely is a reason for the NSA to give a fuck what you or I think. They are an intelligence and security agency, operating covertly with plausible deniability is what they do. More importantly, there are laws trying to be passed that can strengthen or weaken their funding and power. Making people at home feel that the ag…

There is no political stick for them to be on, because every decision-maker in the US government knows how important the NSA is.

Where's your evidence for that? The hearings in congress I think have shown that there are doubts from decision-makers.

Re: New Snowden Docs Indicate Scope of NSA Preparations for Cyber Battle

#165

Post by RottenHuman »

krapp wrote: post #163
srj wrote: post #160

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The parent poster didn't advise ignoring the pro-NSA opinions but gave his opinion that he felt there might be an astroturf campaign. And why follow a comment agreeing that astroturf campaigns are employed with one slanting those pointing it out as 'spooks' and 'paranoid'? I think it's worth reminding fellow readers that this sort of manipulation happens, and likely on HN.

I have a problem with the 'likely' part, because that's where the 'paranoid' comes into play. What evidence is there that it's likely, other than paranoia?

If you were to be assigned to astroturf certain demographics, what better target than HN would you chose to reach tech-professionals?

Re: New Snowden Docs Indicate Scope of NSA Preparations for Cyber Battle

#166

Post by Rapzid »

xnull2guest wrote: post #119
jakeogh wrote: post #100

The premise that we need "beneolvient power" to "protect us" from "evil doers" is the oldest trick in the book. If there is no threat, one will be generated. Almost organically, it does not even take overt orginization. The players know cui bono.

She has abstained from interference in the concerns of others, even when the conflict has been for principles to which she clings, as to the last vital drop that visits the heart. She has seen that probably for centuries to come, all the contests of that Aceldama, the European World, will be contests between inveterate power, and emerging right. Wherever the standard of freedom and independence has been or shall be u…

It's kinda odd that our politicians in the past used to be, for lack of better words, poets. I have often wondered about this and wondered what has happened.

Re: New Snowden Docs Indicate Scope of NSA Preparations for Cyber Battle

#168

Post by tacoman »

lawnchair_larry wrote: post #86

Here's a story for you. I'm not a party to any of this. I've done nothing wrong, I've never been suspected of doing anything wrong, and I don't know anyone who has done anything wrong. I don't even mean that in the sense of "I pissed off the wrong people but technically haven't been charged." I mean that I am a vanilla, average, 9-5 working man of no interest to anybody. My geographical location is an accident of my…

I read this post a dozen times. As a sysadmin for a sizable ISP in a non-US/UK country, the Belgacom story has haunted me.

Is this the first time you've talked about it?

Re: New Snowden Docs Indicate Scope of NSA Preparations for Cyber Battle

#169

Post by omphalos »

sroerick wrote: post #33
pa7ch wrote: post #30

Looking at the comments in support of the NSA here makes me suspect an astroturfing campaign is happening. Edit: I should add that my suspicion came from noticing that the vast majority of the comments when this was first posted seemed aligned in favor of the NSA's mission. It wasn't the presence of pro-NSA comments that was interesting but rather that these opinions were the overwhelming majority. This is, of course…

Hacker News is quite astroturfed. Every web forum is.

One approach to countering sock-puppetry as a general problem is with increased transparency. Personally, I think lobste.rs' notion of a user tree is a step in the right direction: https://lobste.rs/u

Re: New Snowden Docs Indicate Scope of NSA Preparations for Cyber Battle

#170

Post by diminoten »

srj wrote: post #164
diminoten wrote: post #124

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There is no political stick for them to be on, because every decision-maker in the US government knows how important the NSA is.

Where's your evidence for that? The hearings in congress I think have shown that there are doubts from decision-makers.

The lack of traction any of those movements get, and the general disconnect that every. single. congressperson. has when it comes to cyber security.
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