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Why isn’t New Zealand richer and more productive?

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Re: Why isn’t New Zealand richer and more productive?

#161

Post by eli_gottlieb »

Varcht wrote: post #48
cryoshon wrote: post #29

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There's also the related phenomenon that in the US, the rich are in the spotlight of society and the poor are decidedly disliked.

I would disagree that "poor are decidedly disliked" here as a rule. There are plenty of "poor" that are accepted, liked and even esteemed. Think of the starving artists, musicians, olympic athletes, working class poor, the startup set, etc. There is dislike for the poor that resort to crime, thuggery, drugs etc. At least this is how I see it from my middle class perspective.

If America liked the poor it would give them money.

Re: Why isn’t New Zealand richer and more productive?

#162

Post by dhughes »

olalonde wrote: post #154
dhughes wrote: post #147

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's like that where I am in eastern Canada people go out smoke weed and drink every weekend if not every night! Most have menial jobs just enough to get by with government assistance. Yet everyone goes to Cuba, the Dominican Republic, Mexico every year and they make nothing. I can see how all-inclusive vacations became so popular. I work with 20-year-olds who laugh if they are sent home at work for doing something w…

Oh god, that was the most hilarious (yet accurate) description of Quebec I have ever heard... Thanks! > I probably make four times what they do but can't see how they can afford it let alone me. I'm sorry to break it to you but you are paying for it through taxes. Ok, that's an over-generalisation but there is some truth to it. It's very easy to get by without a salary in Quebec due to the multitude of governmental s…

I'm a bit farther east.

Re: Why isn’t New Zealand richer and more productive?

#163

Post by duncan_bayne »

I was raised in New Zealand, and spent the first half of my life (so far) there. I'm now happily raising a family in Melbourne, Australia. Some observations:

- many of the people I knew in IT in New Zealand have left, especially for Australia; when I was there, this was known as the 'brain drain'

- growing up in New Zealand, there was a strong anti-intellectual current to the culture, especially amongst Maori students (I came top in my year for Maori language despite there being fluent speakers in my school, because I did assignments and they didn't)

- successful people in New Zealand are often criticised because of their success; this is known as 'tall poppy syndrome'

- New Zealand is, politically speaking, entirely socialist; even their 'right wing' party is in favour of a welfare state, taxpayer-funded education and healthcare, and a wide range of 'sin taxes' and legislation designed to protect people from themselves (a.k.a. the 'Nanny State' to its critics)

- Universities there simply aren't as demanding as overseas; my wife cross-credited a psych. degree from Australia, and she was more than half way through a NZ undergrad degree after one year of a degree in Australia

Note that I haven't listed NZ's many positive characteristics. Just saying that all of the above contribute to an environment that in my experience is less productive and less entrepreneurial than Australia.

Re: Why isn’t New Zealand richer and more productive?

#164

Post by duncan_bayne »

seanmcdirmid wrote: post #158
zo1 wrote: post #153

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Ah yes, so it's my fault that groups of individuals decided to not take care of their neighborhood, right. Sorry, no, but people need to take responsibility for their own actions. And I will in no way share blame for a second generation further ruining their kids' futures because they're too short-sighted and expect the rest of us to do it for them. We as a society can only share blame for one generation. The next on…

Wow, so its poor people fault they and their children and their children's children remain poor. That is very libercrazian of you.

Downvote for name-calling. HN doesn't need that.

Re: Why isn’t New Zealand richer and more productive?

#165

Post by EdwardDiego »

capisce wrote: post #159
EdwardDiego wrote: post #144

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I code in NZ for a German company. We are very competitive on price compared to Germans, and very competitive on quality, compared to Indians. It's a happy middle ground.

Is the time difference not an issue?

Yep, it can be. So there is a requirement to occasionally work later hours if you liaise with Germany - which is mainly our management and proxy product owners. But with solid backlog groomings, the need to speak to Germany is minimised - if you're grooming a story for next sprint two weeks ahead, any questions can be resolved by email. We run proxy product owners who have responsibility for understanding stories sufficiently to act in the product owner's stead.

That said, the time-zone is an advantage when it comes to deployment - a 4am deployment German time is happily within normal 9 - 5 hours in NZ.

Admittedly, when we travel to Germany for quarterly planning, you realise that being able to walk up to the product owner's office and discuss things in person is far more efficient and far better for resolving things faster. But at the end of the day, we can run 3 Scrum teams in NZ for as much as it cost us to run 1 Scrum team in Munich when we tried it as an experiment - the business team accepts the downsides of distance and time-zone simply for the efficiencies in euros.

I guess that's an upside of being a low-wage economy - we're still competitive despite our stupidly high dollar.

Re: Why isn’t New Zealand richer and more productive?

#166

Post by zo1 »

seanmcdirmid wrote: post #158
zo1 wrote: post #153

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Ah yes, so it's my fault that groups of individuals decided to not take care of their neighborhood, right. Sorry, no, but people need to take responsibility for their own actions. And I will in no way share blame for a second generation further ruining their kids' futures because they're too short-sighted and expect the rest of us to do it for them. We as a society can only share blame for one generation. The next on…

Wow, so its poor people fault they and their children and their children's children remain poor. That is very libercrazian of you.

No, I'm saying it's the parents' fault for their children remaining poor. Or did you not read anything I wrote and just blatantly jumped to conclusions?

As someone who has come from a poor family, I know full well what sacrifice and hard work can do to uplift your children's prospects in the world. Even if that means drastic life changes. And as a consequence of that, I will not accept peoples' excuses for remaining in poverty. Nor will I share the blame for their failings.

Re: Why isn’t New Zealand richer and more productive?

#167

Post by eli_gottlieb »

wycx wrote: post #151
endoself wrote: post #6

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Australia is doing unusually well recently, I think due to natural resources as you mentioned. This graph might give a better idea of what has been going on: https://www.wolframalpha.com/input/?i=uk+gdp+per+capita+%2F+...

I suggest that much of Australia's good performance will turn out to have been a bit illusory. We were extremely lucky to experience a significant terms of trade increase from ~2003 onwards, as world iron ore and coal prices increased. Unfortunately for us, we pissed all that windfall up against a wall. I don't think we posted a current account surplus at all throughout the resources boom years. Instead, Australian b…

>Australian banks borrowed money from overseas to lend to Australians so they could sell houses to each other for ever increasing amounts every year. The Australian economy grew because we borrowed from overseas. Existing property owners got to feel richer. As soon as we start to pay back all the debt in a significant way, our economy will shrink.

Sounds like the exact same finance became dominant in every other Western economy.

Re: Why isn’t New Zealand richer and more productive?

#168

Post by lexcorvus »

hyp0 wrote: post #160
lexcorvus wrote: post #109

Earlier quoted context omitted.

He's suggesting you meant circumnavigated , not circumvented .

To explain the joke: Yes, he caught that error of mine, but I found a retrospective justification as a way to get out of it, as a joke. That's why he replied "Well done!"

Gotcha.

Re: Why isn’t New Zealand richer and more productive?

#169

Post by grecy »

HarryHirsch wrote: post #45
grecy wrote: post #30

Earlier quoted context omitted.

...and those who realize they have enough ignore the rich and are out living how they want to be (camping, hiking, taking photos, etc.)

and those who realize they have enough ignore the rich If you only could. The problem is that in the US a great portion of taxes are locally raised and spent, and the way of dealing with poverty is to price the poor out of areas where they aren't wanted. To get access to halfway decent schools you need to move to the suburbs, and what's available there in housing is hugely outsized. You cannot save on heating, coolin…

> If you only could

I, and many people I know are doing it. Of course, like anything worth doing, it takes hard work and dedication, but it certainly can be done.

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