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NSA tracking cellphone locations worldwide, Snowden documents show

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Re: NSA tracking cellphone locations worldwide, Snowden documents show

#161
post #141

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So why is that in polite company, even those that are opposed to our various wars are obliged to toe the line, "we support our troops"? Even in 21st century America, we continue to fool ourselves, thinking that somehow soldiers can be noble, heroes even, all the while being engaged something that is immoral.

What immoral acts do you consider US troops to currently be engaged in?

Since the disclosure of the Downing Street Memorandum it has been clear that the war in Iraq was a war without a legitimate cause, where the US and UK acted as aggressors toward goals that were withheld from the public.

Re: NSA tracking cellphone locations worldwide, Snowden documents show

#162
I shouldn’t be writing this.

Every time I read something NSA/FBI/CIA/KGB/Interpol/MI5/Stasi related I get this instinctive feeling of angriness and sadness at the same time.

We were given the “internet”, pretty much for free, and we believed it would be a fair deal? That there would be nothing in for them? When was the last time you were give something for free, can you even remember? They are breaking encryption? Really?! Didn’t we learn that it’s not feasible to break encryption? Ah, but they are using quantum computers, right. Should we even believe Snowden and Assange and Schneier, or anyone really? My father even thinks they are watching him through the cable set. Am I supposed to argue with him about the opposite?

Worldwide, governments and agencies and individuals control whatever they want, however they want, whenever they want. And we are just siting and watching them. Individuals are profiting from illegal activities? Who cares? NSA is breaking an amendment? Who cares? Governments are saying A and doing B? Who cares?All these are breaking the law? They are the law. We let them become the law. Because we don’t care.

Damon Albarn (songwriter of the virtual music group Gorillaz) was once asked about X-Factor (a music reality show) and his answer applies not only to it but to a lot of things in our lives too: Every time you do even a little thing that harms your privacy or your freedom or even your dignity, it might not do a lot of harm because it is little but what’s actually happening is that you are moving the privacy/freedom/dignity barrier away from where it should be. And all these times, all these “littles”, they sum up and next time you do something very bad it looks little again but it’s very very big.

Because you don’t realise how much the barrier has moved. We didn’t care when we had to pay unreasonable taxes last year. We don’t care when politicians lie to us in front of our sad faces, time after time, election after election. We don’t care about other any other person’s rights. We don’t care about unfairness all over around us. We don’t care about any kind of oppression, anywhere in the world. So we won’t care when we find out that someone is scrapping this page and is adding data to our profiles on a database. Of course we won’t. We don’t care that in 2014 we can send rockets to the space but haven’t evolved our culture to to the point where it would be our collective duty as the human race to make sure that everybody on this planet can have all the water and the food they need and access to an amazing education and an incredible health system for their whole life.

We have lost the war, and we don’t even care. We should expect the worst, really.

Now, please, save the “if you really cared you would actually do something” comments. Because the truth is, I can’t do anything. Not alone. I can’t make anyone care. Most of us can’t. We don’t have access to them, we don’t have the mediums to stimulate them, we don’t have nothing. I didn’t want to become a politician or a media baron or a general or anything that involves that sort of authority over other people anyway. I wanted to become a sports writer, then a columnist, then an academic and then a software developer. And I am not even a talented software developer that can hack for good or build software that will help liberate the world. And I believe that protests and occupying and rioting and any sort of such action is just expansion and nothing else, so I don’t do it. But this fact, that I haven’t found a way to “fight”, doesn’t mean I can not be heartedly disappointed by our collective indifference. Maybe that’s what I can offer, these typed words.

I shouldn’t be writing this.

I should be working on my personal project that will help me get a job and make money instead. I shouldn’t even care as much to talk about it.

But all that is left is our ideas and voices, really, and I just can’t give up without even saying a few things — even to an online community where I know nobody. Not to change anything, probably, but at least to say I tried.

I shouldn’t be writing this. But I care. And I hope you start caring too.

(I have also published this comment on medium: https://medium.com/p/ebcea7330613)

Re: NSA tracking cellphone locations worldwide, Snowden documents show

#163
post #75

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's rude to link to an ugly site when you could link to a better, more readable one. It's rude to lie and manipulate people for money, when you could easily avoid doing so. Advertising should not be encouraged, ever. When you have the opportunity to show someone an ad-free, single page, uncluttered version of a piece of literature, do it. Please. Always.

>Advertising should not be encouraged, ever. I've never come across this view – can you tell me why you hold that opinion?

Advertising is basically all manipulation and lies. If it isn't, we just call it "information".

Look at what they call "underwriting" on nonprofit independent or public radio stations. "This production is brought to you by Bill's Shoes, 123 Main Street, Saginaw. Selling Men's and Women's shoes, boots and sandals since 1982."

Advertising goes beyond that, using false superlatives, misleading copy, calls to action, and peer pressure, at best. At worst it's just lies. There is nothing free about "buy one get one free", for instance. It's a lie. Sales, "deals", "limited time only" -- these are psychological games. Manipulation. Often, the "everyday" price the sale prices is marked down from, is a lie. Misleading propaganda at best. Straight up fraud at worst. This is the everyday "harmless" content we allow our children and politicians to watch.

And that's just traditional television, radio and print advertising. What passes for advertising on the internet is uniformly awful. I'd call most of it malware.

Re: NSA tracking cellphone locations worldwide, Snowden documents show

#164
post #159

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Don't the instances of "parallel construction" already uncovered mean that the whole "restricts actions against Americans" thing has been blown wide open? I suspect the answer to whether this was been written into law lies in secret interpretations of secret passages of the PATRIOT Acts, and that our rights have been, in secret, broadly abridged if not suspended.

Simply put, no. Parallel construction is a process by which otherwise inadmissible evidence can be used in court by obtaining it through an alternative lawful method. i.e. DEA trailing a specific car until it leads to a drug dealer based on a tip from the NSA. The NSA charter restricts directly targeting Americans unless related to an international threat. i.e. FISA warrants ("Foreign Intelligence Surveillance Act").…

> * It is just that many people don't seem to particularly care about the nuances of either the NSA's charter or "Parallel construction" and throw terms around.*

Alternatively, "people" could be skeptical of whether parallel construction isn't about "tips" "nuances" and observing a "charter." Rather that it amounts to getting a pre-cooked investigation that you just color-by-numbers to launder domestic spying.

Re: NSA tracking cellphone locations worldwide, Snowden documents show

#165

I shouldn’t be writing this. Every time I read something NSA/FBI/CIA/KGB/Interpol/MI5/Stasi related I get this instinctive feeling of angriness and sadness at the same time. We were given the “internet”, pretty much for free, and we believed it would be a fair deal? That there would be nothing in for them? When was the last time you were give something for free, can you even remember? They are breaking encryption? Re…

Reminds me of the "First they came" poem - well written post, thank you:

First they came for the Communists, and I didn't speak out because I wasn't a Communist.

Then they came for the Socialists, and I didn't speak out because I wasn't a Socialist.

Then they came for the trade unionists, and I didn't speak out because I wasn't a trade unionist.

Then they came for me, and there was no one left to speak for me.

Re: NSA tracking cellphone locations worldwide, Snowden documents show

#166

I shouldn’t be writing this. Every time I read something NSA/FBI/CIA/KGB/Interpol/MI5/Stasi related I get this instinctive feeling of angriness and sadness at the same time. We were given the “internet”, pretty much for free, and we believed it would be a fair deal? That there would be nothing in for them? When was the last time you were give something for free, can you even remember? They are breaking encryption? Re…

Reminds me of the "First they came" poem - well written post, thank you: First they came for the Communists, and I didn't speak out because I wasn't a Communist. Then they came for the Socialists, and I didn't speak out because I wasn't a Socialist. Then they came for the trade unionists, and I didn't speak out because I wasn't a trade unionist. Then they came for me, and there was no one left to speak for me.

I realised this is coming out way more poetically than I intended, I hope it's not taken as dramaqueeny, my purpose isn't that at all.

Re: NSA tracking cellphone locations worldwide, Snowden documents show

#167
post #65

From the article: NSA Director Keith Alexander disclosed in Senate testimony in October that the NSA had run a pilot project in 2010 and 2011 to collect “samples” of U.S. cellphone location data. The data collected were never available for intelligence analysis purposes, and the project was discontinued because it had no “operational value,” he said. Alexander allowed that a broader collection of such data “may be so…

> And that, folks, is why we as engineers and hackers have a moral duty to be very selective in the types of work we take on and for whom. Computer yechnology work is still a wild west. Other fields which have similar ethical considerations - medicine, chemistry, engineering - have ethics courses which make it clear to the graduates that their professional decisions have consequences. There is no such standard for co…

To be completely honest, I love doing work on systems like PRISM. I don't want to be spied on, but working with big data (and some of the most interesting, at that) is a ton of fun. Yes, it's hypocritical, but I know most people have never had the opportunity to do so, making it hard for them to see both sides of it. The people who work on these systems like doing it, don't kid yourself.

Re: NSA tracking cellphone locations worldwide, Snowden documents show

#168
post #102
post #89

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's way more ambiguous. PRISM people thought they were doing right. All NSA - based on all the official and unofficial responses - think they are doing right. That they help building a safer America. That they have to sacrifice privacy for safety. Etc, etc. I don't think NSA people are evil. They believe that the things they do are for good.

I don't think NSA people are evil. They believe that the things they do are for good. Evil like in the movies doesn't exist. In the real-world evil is simply a lack of perspective (some would call it empathy instead). No one ever wakes up and decides they want to be a villain. They always have some sort of logic that rationalizes their actions as being reasonable if not outright good. The more they act on that lack o…

I agree that normal people are generally not evil, but sociopaths can very much be indistinguishable from some particularly evil movie-characters.

I worked with a sociopath in the past and have studied it in literature, and a sociopath by definition sees meeting their own needs as a priority. Regardless of the effect on those around them.

A sociopath is willing to inflict suffering on others for even minor gains of their own. Sociopaths seek out high-power positions and often thrive in them, and those working with them often suffer as a consequence.

Re: NSA tracking cellphone locations worldwide, Snowden documents show

#169
post #141

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So why is that in polite company, even those that are opposed to our various wars are obliged to toe the line, "we support our troops"? Even in 21st century America, we continue to fool ourselves, thinking that somehow soldiers can be noble, heroes even, all the while being engaged something that is immoral.

What immoral acts do you consider US troops to currently be engaged in?

My opinion isn't the question here. I'm observing first that there are many people who profess that one or more of our multiple wars are immoral; and second, that they simultaneously profess that the soldiers fighting deserve our support rather than scorn for supporting the putatively unjust war.

If you believe that the war is unjust, and you believe that it's the duty of a soldier (or any person) to refuse to perform immoral acts, then consistency dictates that you should condemn the soldiers fighting in those wars, not revere them.

Re: NSA tracking cellphone locations worldwide, Snowden documents show

#170
post #102
post #89

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's way more ambiguous. PRISM people thought they were doing right. All NSA - based on all the official and unofficial responses - think they are doing right. That they help building a safer America. That they have to sacrifice privacy for safety. Etc, etc. I don't think NSA people are evil. They believe that the things they do are for good.

I don't think NSA people are evil. They believe that the things they do are for good. Evil like in the movies doesn't exist. In the real-world evil is simply a lack of perspective (some would call it empathy instead). No one ever wakes up and decides they want to be a villain. They always have some sort of logic that rationalizes their actions as being reasonable if not outright good. The more they act on that lack o…

Reminds me of the movie The Cube[1].

Some select quotes (minor spoiler alert):

"There is no conspiracy. Nobody is in charge. It's a headless blunder operating under the illusion of a master plan."

"It's all the same machine, right? The Pentagon, multinational corporations, the police. If you do one little job, you build a widget in Saskatoon, and the next thing you know, it's two miles under the desert, the essential component of a death machine."

Quentin: But why put people in it?

Worth: Because it's here. You have to use it, or you admit that it's pointless.

Quentin: But it is pointless.

Worth: Quentin... that's my point.

[1] https://www.rottentomatoes.com/m/the-cube/

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