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Why Russians Are Not Smiling (2011)

blog.properrussian.com

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Re: Why Russians Are Not Smiling (2011)

#161

Post by bemmu »

yason wrote: post #86
seldo wrote: post #46

My parents, who live in Trinidad, have this problem every time they visit me in America. After a couple of days of everyone fake-smiling at them the whole time they get pissed off. To them, everyone's smiles come off as insincere and even slightly condescending. (They hate it even more when people tell them to "have a nice day".)

Of course. Many Finnish people are like that too. If I can't think of a single reason myself why that unknown person might be smiling at me then I must conclude s/he's just pretending to be friendly and probably trying something, too. Thus, smiling must have a context: friends smile to each other and that's all right because they're already friends, and friends like each other.

I'm Finnish too and feel the same way. If someone smiles and acts too friendly when I don't know them well, I feel like they may be trying to manipulate me in some way. After living abroad for a while I am starting to see that it's just the default way to act, but being unsure when someone is genuinely enjoying my company vs. just trying to act polite still makes me feel uneasy.

Re: Why Russians Are Not Smiling (2011)

#162

Post by cema »

blah32497 wrote: post #13

As a Russian-American this comes off as complete BS. I've seen this written before and it's always in the form of "It's not us that smile too little, it's you Americans that are fake and smile too much!". For one, Americans don't just smile to be polite. For the most part it's genuinely conveying positive emotions. Now I know this is going to be unpopular, but I think the real reason Russians don't smile is cultural.…

I mostly agree. Cannot vouch for other Slavic people, but in Russia "чо лыбишься" (wtf are you smiling at) almost always greets me, and greeted while I was living there. One of the most fundamental reasons for me to move away to the US was this fundamental difference in the psychological makeup, which is expressed in the Russian proverb, "смех без причины признак дурачины": a smile without a reason means the person is without reason. No it does not.

Re: Why Russians Are Not Smiling (2011)

#163

Post by MichaelMoser123 »

blah32497 wrote: post #13

As a Russian-American this comes off as complete BS. I've seen this written before and it's always in the form of "It's not us that smile too little, it's you Americans that are fake and smile too much!". For one, Americans don't just smile to be polite. For the most part it's genuinely conveying positive emotions. Now I know this is going to be unpopular, but I think the real reason Russians don't smile is cultural.…

I don't think it is BS; the article has a very true observation

"Quite often, Russians smile not “at”, but "about" something."

I guess in Russia one must always be aware of hierarchy; one is supposed to be subordinate to the current hierarchy; Smiling is often interpreted as mocking by the higher ups, and as a sign of condescension by peers.

Also Moscow is quite a stressful place; Men have a high chance of dying in their fifties due to heart problems, much higher chance than in other countries.

Re: Why Russians Are Not Smiling (2011)

#164

Post by salimmadjd »

cema wrote: post #162
blah32497 wrote: post #13

As a Russian-American this comes off as complete BS. I've seen this written before and it's always in the form of "It's not us that smile too little, it's you Americans that are fake and smile too much!". For one, Americans don't just smile to be polite. For the most part it's genuinely conveying positive emotions. Now I know this is going to be unpopular, but I think the real reason Russians don't smile is cultural.…

I mostly agree. Cannot vouch for other Slavic people, but in Russia "чо лыбишься" ( wtf are you smiling at ) almost always greets me, and greeted while I was living there. One of the most fundamental reasons for me to move away to the US was this fundamental difference in the psychological makeup, which is expressed in the Russian proverb, "смех без причины признак дурачины": a smile without a reason means the person…

this thread couldn't come sooner. I'm in Minsk, Belarus (very similar to Russia) from SV for the next month to finish our mobile app. One thing I've noticed is how fucking gloomy everyone looks. If you smile the men look intimidating and want to cut your head off and the women roll their eyes...It's as if everyone is a KGB agent and they are constantly suspecting you.

Re: Why Russians Are Not Smiling (2011)

#165

Post by spacebe4time »

blah32497 wrote: post #13

As a Russian-American this comes off as complete BS. I've seen this written before and it's always in the form of "It's not us that smile too little, it's you Americans that are fake and smile too much!". For one, Americans don't just smile to be polite. For the most part it's genuinely conveying positive emotions. Now I know this is going to be unpopular, but I think the real reason Russians don't smile is cultural.…

I am a Russian-American as well and I have to concur with gentleman above. I also asked my wife to see if she shares the feeling. Same result.

I am not sure whether it's Slavic thing or not, but I think last 100 years of history had something to do with it.

Re: Why Russians Are Not Smiling (2011)

#167

Post by javert »

jedmeyers wrote: post #85
pyre wrote: post #52

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Socialism makes every other person a potential enemy and a potential victim. Resources are scarce. People come to hate one another. You're taking a look at countries that have implemented 'socialism' and ended up with what amounts to dictatorships. Do you really think that Communism as envisioned by Karl Marx included someone like Stalin, or the corrupt officials that inhabited governments in the Eastern Bloc? For…

Karl Marx should have envisioned that someone like Stalin might exist in the future and will take over the power, otherwise his perfect Communism system is only applicable to perfect people.

Communism is bad in practice, but it's also bad in theory. It's not like if people were more moral, or more rational, or if we had the government run by a smart computer, communism would be possible. Setting that aside, there's also no reason to prefer communism over a free market, or pretty much anything.

tl;dr don't grant it moral credit.

Re: Why Russians Are Not Smiling (2011)

#168

Post by javert »

wavefunction wrote: post #27
javert wrote: post #24

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Socialism makes every other person a potential enemy and a potential victim. Resources are scarce. People come to hate one another. Capitalism makes every other person at worst a neutral non-threat and at best a potential trading partner. Resources are plentiful. People feel benevolent towards one another. This is not an apology for America; America is only semi-capitalist. You can see Americans getting meaner over t…

You do realize that most of Western Europe is socialist? That some of the countries that enjoy the highest quality of life and happiness are socialist? How do you square that with what you've written?

> You do realize that most of Western Europe is socialist?

Yep. I would even include America in that, just to a slightly lesser extent.

> That some of the countries that enjoy the highest quality of life and happiness are socialist?

Well, who are you comparing to? There aren't really any or many relatively free countries (and there never have been more than 1 or 2 at a time in all of history).

It's not true if you compare it to 19th century America in terms of happiness, nor modern-day Singapore in terms of quality of life.

(In fact, a pet has a better quality of life than a typical American, since they have better access to healthcare.)

> How do you square that with what you've written?

I hope I've answered your question.

Re: Why Russians Are Not Smiling (2011)

#169

Post by cdi »

aestra wrote: post #159
Theodores wrote: post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Some years ago, whilst on holiday in the U.S.A., a smiling American summarized my experience for me: In San Francisco they ask you 'how's it going, man!', in Chicago they shout 'WHAT?' and in New York they don't even talk to you. So it is a sliding scale of friendliness, from West to East.

Nah. I think it is because New York is our biggest city with 8 million people. There are just too many people to sort through so nobody talks. You can't make a generalization about the entire east coast based on NYC. In smaller places if you are walking down the street and you pass a stranger most of the time you smile at them and say hello.

This could also partially explain Russian unwillingness to smile. Most of Russians were born and raised in relatively big cities, not in suburbia where "friendliness to neighbor" cultural protocol makes sense. There are just too many neighbors to be friendly with in Russia.

Re: Why Russians Are Not Smiling (2011)

#170

Post by foohbarbaz »

Russians also like to dress in black or grey. I once was looking at a picture of a group of Russian mountaineers on the summit of a Mexican volcano and realized, that there was not a single red or yellow article of clothing, all black. I don't have any non-black puffy jackets either and I am a... Russian :)
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