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PlayStation Is Deleting 551 Movies from Customers' Accounts

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Re: PlayStation Is Deleting 551 Movies from Customers' Accounts

#161

Post by Telaneo »

Manuel_D wrote: post #102
rolph wrote: post #100

Earlier quoted context omitted.

streaming is downloading, otherwise it wouldnt be visible on your hardware. if you pay for a stream and the distributor downloads it to your buffer, the only thing preventing it from persisting is wrapping the data to contain it in a file structure. if we really want to split hairs, everytime the data is accessed a streams bits are copied into registers, but those bits have no identity beyond 1 or 0 if you dont distr…

The argument is that it doesn't create another copy, so it's more analogous to receiving a broadcast. Like, if a pirate radio station plays copyrighted music, then the mere act of receiving those signals isn't a copyright violation. But recording that broadcast would be.

> But recording that broadcast would be.

Is this seriously true in the US? I doubt this is the case in any European jurisdiction.

Recording radio and TV is legal in any other case (the relevant companies didn't want that to be the case either, but we hadn't yet fallen far enough down the hole yet for that possibility to disappear).

To make another comparison:

You record House on your Tivo = Legal (you now have a file you can play anywhere (barring DRM, but libre DVRs exist), you've copied it)

You 'record' House on Netflix (either literally with OBS or just capturing the video stream via some other means) = Illegal

The only difference is the source. The actual video stream could be functionally identical. There's the fact that actual TV and radio isn't on-demand, but that to me is just an implementation detail, and not an inherent reason to treat them differently (then again, I'm not deep into the mindset of defending copyright).

Re: PlayStation Is Deleting 551 Movies from Customers' Accounts

#162

Post by nerdsniper »

b__d wrote: post #149
nerdsniper wrote: post #8

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Jellyfin + Jellyseer + PassThePopcorn has served me and my friends/family well. I pay $50/mo now for a seedbox with 16TB but it serves 20 people. I would self-host for $0/month but my current apartment only has Xfinity, not AT&T and the upload isn’t enough to self-host. It’s less about the money and more about: 1) Having a single place to go for any TV show or movie. I found it very frustrating trying to figure out w…

Where did you get a seedbox with 16 TB for just 50$/month?!

https://whatbox.ca/plans

Re: PlayStation Is Deleting 551 Movies from Customers' Accounts

#163

Post by perching_aix »

gmerc wrote: post #126
Manuel_D wrote: post #39

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Correct: it's copyright infringement, not theft.

We all just need to compress them into LLM weights.

Finally the non-existing scenes I thought have "disappeared" from the movies I've seen could make a reappearance!

Re: PlayStation Is Deleting 551 Movies from Customers' Accounts

#164

Post by Telaneo »

buzer wrote: post #135
munk-a wrote: post #40

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If you buy a DVD you have the right, in every sane jurisdiction I'm aware of, to rip the movie from the DVD into an iso. You can then discard/recycle the media and retain the digital copy you have the right to view privately in perpetuity. It is a single consumer license though, as is logical, so it's likely illegal for you to continue to watch the ripped iso if you resell the media with the content still on it or re…

In Finland DVD's CSS was ruled to be strong technical copy protection system (tehokas tekninen toimenpide). In that exact case a person had made a program which bypassed it and published it. He was found to be criminally liable though he didn't get any fine/prison time from what I remember. In Finnish criminal law the threshold is "significant harm", but given that there were already multitude of ways to get around D…

Shoutout to DVD-Jon from Norway.[1] I'm pretty sure we've settled on it being legal nowadays, but it took at least that court case for it to happen (not to mention that it was a fucking clown show).

There's a quote on his Norwegian Wikipedia page from the then minister of justice: 'Some people may think [circumventing DVD DRM] is cool and stuff, but this is an activity that is devastating for the industry'.

If it really is devastating for the industry, the industry should really figure itself out. And for that matter, with hindsight, it doesn't look like it really did anything.

[1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jon_Lech_Johansen

Re: PlayStation Is Deleting 551 Movies from Customers' Accounts

#165

Post by Telaneo »

BloondAndDoom wrote: post #134
jrmg wrote: post #112

Earlier quoted context omitted.

With Apple, you can at least download the media you bought and keep it. Could you do that with these PlayStation store movies?

If I download it on my iPad I’m pretty sure it will delete itself or eventually got deleted on an update. I might be wrong but this is how these systems work.

If you buy it on a PC, you get a file you can do whatever you want with. In Apple's case it's at least possible to keep if you're vigilant.

I'm sure the file disappearing from your iOS device is naught more than a convenient bug. It's not ideal, but I don't think one can realistically expect much more (at least not without actual consumer protection, which will probably take a while).

Re: PlayStation Is Deleting 551 Movies from Customers' Accounts

#166

Post by Telaneo »

lyu07282 wrote: post #147
nayuki wrote: post #79

> Reminding Us Nothing Digital Is Ever Truly Ours Wrong, Kotaku. Lots of digital things are ours. Digital files on our personally owned HDDs and SSDs. Digital movies on DVD and Blu-Ray discs on our shelves. Digital ISO files on hard drives that are ripped from the aforementioned digital physical DVDs. What you meant to say is, streaming content is not ours - and that is true by definition, because the data is streame…

> Digital movies on DVD and Blu-Ray discs on our shelves. It actually already got a bit more fuzzy with Blu-Ray and especially with later BD+ doesn't it? You own some encrypted data, but there is absolutely no guarantee you will always have access to a player with the right keys and a TV that is compatible and isn't refusing to play it. It already drove the needle way past acceptable copy protection, do not buy Blu-R…

> It actually already got a bit more fuzzy with Blu-Ray and especially with later BD+ doesn't it? You own some encrypted data, but there is absolutely no guarantee you will always have access to a player with the right keys and a TV that is compatible and isn't refusing to play it.

Buy this definitions, DVDs are also problematic, given they're also encrypted.

Blu-rays are universally cracked by this point, so I fail to see the problem. MakeMKV is not going away to the point you won't be able to rip your blu-ray.

UHD blu-rays are a different story, since they added more encryption.

Re: PlayStation Is Deleting 551 Movies from Customers' Accounts

#167

Post by rolph »

Telaneo wrote: post #161
Manuel_D wrote: post #102

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The argument is that it doesn't create another copy, so it's more analogous to receiving a broadcast. Like, if a pirate radio station plays copyrighted music, then the mere act of receiving those signals isn't a copyright violation. But recording that broadcast would be.

> But recording that broadcast would be. Is this seriously true in the US? I doubt this is the case in any European jurisdiction. Recording radio and TV is legal in any other case (the relevant companies didn't want that to be the case either, but we hadn't yet fallen far enough down the hole yet for that possibility to disappear). To make another comparison: You record House on your Tivo = Legal (you now have a file…

the thing is its not like a radio or TV broadcast. some countries consider open broadcast to be public domain so once its broadcast its public, you just cant sell it like its yours.

when a server downloads data to you, the server is creating a copy on your hardware right out of the gate.

a stream is a download. a central server, is pushing bits into your hardware, and making a copy on your hardware.

restricting any copying at all means your hardware cant use what you were legally given, because by a split hair definition, the bits are being copied when they move from memory address to register address vice versa.

appending header and footer to a data structure is not copying the data.

the real problem unilaterally, is when you are not a legal distributor, and you provide a copy to someone else. [dont do that]

Re: PlayStation Is Deleting 551 Movies from Customers' Accounts

#169

Post by Telaneo »

rolph wrote: post #167
Telaneo wrote: post #161

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> But recording that broadcast would be. Is this seriously true in the US? I doubt this is the case in any European jurisdiction. Recording radio and TV is legal in any other case (the relevant companies didn't want that to be the case either, but we hadn't yet fallen far enough down the hole yet for that possibility to disappear). To make another comparison: You record House on your Tivo = Legal (you now have a file…

the thing is its not like a radio or TV broadcast. some countries consider open broadcast to be public domain so once its broadcast its public, you just cant sell it like its yours. when a server downloads data to you, the server is creating a copy on your hardware right out of the gate. a stream is a download. a central server, is pushing bits into your hardware, and making a copy on your hardware. restricting any c…

> some countries consider open broadcast to be public domain so once its broadcast its public

I can still legally record cable TV (or is that also illegal in the US?), even though I probably need to pay a lot more for it than I would for both Netflix and open broadcasts.

> when a server downloads data to you,

*Uploads.

> the server is creating a copy on your hardware right out of the gate.

As opposed to what?

> a stream is a download. a central server, is pushing bits into your hardware, and making a copy on your hardware.

The same way a TV broadcast is (barring implementation details). What's the difference between me displaying that data instantly and it then going to /dev/null, and me sending that to copy.mkv? I can do the latter legally with TV, why not everything else?

tv-stream.ts > /dev/dri/card0 = Legal

tv-Stream.ts > copy.mkv = Legal

netflix-stream.ts > /dev/dri/card0 = Legal

netflix-stream.ts > copy.mkv = Illegal (why?)

> restricting any copying at all means your hardware cant use what you were legally given, because by a split hair definition, the bits are being copied when they move from memory address to register address vice versa.

Yes.

> the real problem unilaterally, is when you are not a legal distributor, and you provide a copy to someone else.

Obviously. But I'm not doing that when recording TV, radio, Netflix, a blu-ray, your mum, you name it. I'm only making a copy for myself. Yet it's legal in some cases but not in others, just because the implementation is different.

Re: PlayStation Is Deleting 551 Movies from Customers' Accounts

#170

Post by ndsipa_pomu »

somat wrote: post #142
rolph wrote: post #100

Earlier quoted context omitted.

streaming is downloading, otherwise it wouldnt be visible on your hardware. if you pay for a stream and the distributor downloads it to your buffer, the only thing preventing it from persisting is wrapping the data to contain it in a file structure. if we really want to split hairs, everytime the data is accessed a streams bits are copied into registers, but those bits have no identity beyond 1 or 0 if you dont distr…

There is a good epigram about DRM that goes something like "Asking a computer to not copy things is like asking water to not be wet."

Water isn't "wet" , but has the ability to "wet" other objects.

https://www.sciencefocus.com/science/is-water-wet

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