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Fecal transplants for autism deliver success in clinical trials (2019)

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Re: Fecal transplants for autism deliver success in clinical trials (2019)

#161

Post by SoftTalker »

delecti wrote: post #145
SoftTalker wrote: post #110

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Doesn't seem like something that would require an inpatient stay.

> [...] the treatment, which involved a bowel cleanse and daily transplants of fecal microbiota over a period of seven to eight weeks Maybe I'm misinterpreting what the process of that daily transplant looked like, but I expect they ate a not insignificant amount of hospital food if there were 7-8 weeks of daily treatments.

I didn't realize it was such a protracted process, but even if it's a long series of daily treatment, they aren't going to admit you for that if it can be done outpatient. You will be admitted if it's a risky enough procedure that it requires extended/overnight observation. If you can safely go home and come back the next day that is what they will ask you to do.

Re: Fecal transplants for autism deliver success in clinical trials (2019)

#162

Post by sleight42 »

Muromec wrote: post #17
geremiiah wrote: post #14

What's more plausible? Did they cure low functioning autism in two years? Or did they simpily miscategorize the kids and the kids grew out of their diagnosis as they matured?

Kids got into tech industry and now it’s their spouses that have to deal with their tism, instead of parents

This is incredibly offensive.

Mods, please see to this comment.

Re: Fecal transplants for autism deliver success in clinical trials (2019)

#163

Post by user_7832 »

NooneAtAll3 wrote: post #137
user_7832 wrote: post #135

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Given how many kids are told to just "shut up and eat it" - and/or didn't have extreme pickiness but got DX'ed perhaps as an adult - I'd say there's a ton of research required to even suggest this as a plausible cause (even for a limited number of cases). It might make things worse, but I highly doubt it's causative .

DX?

Diagnosed, sorry for the confusion

Re: Fecal transplants for autism deliver success in clinical trials (2019)

#165

Post by dathinab »

dimes wrote: post #70
directevolve wrote: post #56

Many autistic children have extremely limited diets. For example, a geneticist friend of mine saw a case where an autistic child had been referred for genetic testing because of horrific, chronic, spontaneous wounds on gums and skin. Turned out to be scurvy, because he had exclusively eaten Wheat Thins for the last 3-4 years, which aren’t fortified with vitamin C. I would fully expect that a monotonous diet leads to…

Just to play devil’s advocate, isn’t it also possible that the preference for a monotonous diet is driven by gut makeup?

no and yes

autists have often a much much stronger need for habits and avoidance of change. This includes a change of, or a less repeting/habitual diet. The effect if applified due to autism being commonly comorbid with ADHD and hyper fixation on specific foods being a very common thing (not (mainly) caused by gut bacteria as the effect is too strong and too specific to be "just" a preference caused by gut bacteria)

but this can lead to a imbalance of gut bacteria and that can have an reinforcing effect on wanting a even more monotonous diet, but in the end this is AFIK "just" a secondary reinforcing reason not the root cause

Re: Fecal transplants for autism deliver success in clinical trials (2019)

#167

Post by dathinab »

dimes wrote: post #115
Aurornis wrote: post #84

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The microbiome might have some modulating effect, but the fidelity of gut-brain axis communication isn’t so strong that our gut microbiome is driving us around with highly specific inputs. The theories for how gut-brain axis modulation works include altering the balance of nutrients that get absorbed and modulating the vagus nerve, primarily. For someone with autism it might be possible that altering some of these ba…

I’m not going to pretend to be an expert here, but I remember a study that found gut bacteria composition predicted whether or not an individual was chocolate-craving or not in individuals eating identical diets: https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/17929959

putting aside what others have commented about the truastability of studies and similar

- what all studies show is some vague "craving" for something generic, e.g. the link between iron deficiency and craving for ice

- but what you see in autists is often a far stronger effect and not just for eating something, but also against eating most other food. A craving for chocolate does not remove appetite and willingness to eat other food. It just makes you really want to eat chocolate.

- more important the way autistic people get fixated on a monotonous diet is far more specific then any effects we have observed from gut bacteria or other similar sources AFIK. Like lets say your gut bacteria might make you crave fish. You autism on the other hand might make you crave dino formed fish sticks with a specific texture. And there is just no way gut bacteria care about your fish sticks being dino formed or the specific texture of them... But a autistic person often does care, quite a bit even.

Re: Fecal transplants for autism deliver success in clinical trials (2019)

#168

Post by mkl »

hariseldom wrote: post #45
_puk wrote: post #42

>> In early 2022 Krajmalnik-Brown and colleagues patented a specific bacterial formulation and spun-off a commercial company called Gut-Brain Axis Therapeutics. I was a little surprised to see this. So the university researchers use time and money from the university to make a discovery, extending on previous published research, and then patent it and start their own for-profit? Excuse my ignorance, but is that how i…

Universities often keep up to 50% of rights over IP in such cases but I am unsure about this specific case.

100% is common. Stanford was paid hundreds of millions by Google over the years for the use of the patented PageRank algorithm, invented by Google's founders while Stanford students, and therefore owned by Stanford.

Most universities have IP policies giving them ownership of most of the IP their academics create, and student IP may or may not be included. Some exceptions are Duke and Waterloo.

Re: Fecal transplants for autism deliver success in clinical trials (2019)

#169

Post by ninalanyon »

Dwedit wrote: post #147
NooneAtAll3 wrote: post #137

Earlier quoted context omitted.

DX?

Yeah, I see the word "DX'ed" and immediately think of getting clotheslined by Triple H.

Now I'm even more confused. I can read every word in that sentence but I have no idea what it means.

Re: Fecal transplants for autism deliver success in clinical trials (2019)

#170

Post by TFNA »

shermantanktop wrote: post #78
delichon wrote: post #26

I got bad chronic constipation after four years as a strict carnivore. I didn't get relief just by adding back fiber, but I did by adding fermented foods like kimchi. I wonder if ferments are a more natural way than fecal transplants to repair the gut microbiome, possibly treating autism. Studies have been non conclusive, but this story makes me think it's worth pursuing.

The lower intestinal region is guarded by a vat of acid. Not sure how much of those probiotic pills get through.

Eating yoghurt and fresh fruit to replenish gut bacteria has long been common medical advice after severe-diarrhea illnesses. Something does indeed get through.
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