Indifference is a power (2015) • Hacker News Board

Re: Indifference is a power (2015)

#161

Post by bethekidyouwant » Tue, Jan 13, 2026, 4:46 PM UTC

joduplessis wrote: post #151

I think a lot of modern day stoicism is stoicism-without-hardship. And I think hardship is necessary for stoicism - otherwise all you have is determined detachment, which is something else entirely.

Ton arrière-arrière grand-père a vécus la grosse misère ton arrière grand-pere il ramassait des cennes noires et pis ton grand-pere miracle est devenue millionaires ton pere en na hériter il a toute mit dans ses réer et pis toé tite jeunesse tu doit ton cul au ministaire. pas moyen davoir. un prés dans une intitustion banquaire. pour calmer tes envie de huldoper la cassière tu lit des livre qui parle ... de simplicité vonlontaire

- I think each generation can have a different reason for adopting any philosophy it’s about whether it serves you or not.

Re: Indifference is a power (2015)

#162

Post by al_borland » Tue, Jan 13, 2026, 4:48 PM UTC

everdrive wrote: post #11

Actual stoicism is kind of darkly funny. Here's a word-for-word (translated, of course) excerpt from Epictetus: "It's possible to understand what nature wants from situations where we're no different from other people. For example, when a slave breaks someone else's cup we're instantly ready to say 'These things happen.' So when it's a cup of yours that gets broken, appreciate that you have the same attitude as when…

This reminds me of this Buddhist story about the cup that is already broken. I think I like this a bit better, as it's not that the cup doesn't matter, but rather enjoying it for what it is while you have it.

A monk had a beautiful, delicate tea cup.

His student asked him about the cup. And much to the student's surprise he replied that the cup is already broken. “What do you mean?” – asked the student.

The monk said – “To me this cup is already broken.”

“I enjoy it. I drink from it. It holds my water admirably – sometimes even reflecting the sun in beautiful patterns. When I tap it, it has a lovely ring to it. But when I put it on the shelf and the winds blows it over or I knock it off the table and it shatters on the ground then I say - of course.

When I understand the glass is already broken, every moment with it is precious.”

Re: Indifference is a power (2015)

#163

Post by black_13 » Tue, Jan 13, 2026, 4:50 PM UTC

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Re: Indifference is a power (2015)

#164

Post by SAI_Peregrinus » Tue, Jan 13, 2026, 4:57 PM UTC

raffael_de wrote: post #106

drakenot wrote: post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think that’s more a critique of the modern caricature of stoicism than of Stoicism itself. Classical Stoicism isn’t about suppressing emotions. It’s about understanding your emotions, examining where they come from, and choosing how you respond rather than being ruled by them.

understanding, examining and choosing are all thinking based. and that's why stoicism isn't really working well for humans. emotions are neuropsychologically lower level than thoughts/logic/ratio. having said that, lectures about stoicism might well be excellent instructions for language models on how to handle communication with humans.

It's more to separate the feeling from the reaction to the feeling by a layer of understanding & examination. Feel first, understand the feeling, examine whether the feeling is appropriate for the situation that caused it, determine how to react, react. It's an OODA loop applied to one's own emotions: Observe the feeling, Orient on the situation, Decide on a response, Act as decided. If you pre-decide to always suppress any reaction you're missing the point. Stoicism is quite similar to modern Cognitive Behavior Therapy. If you just react without thinking you'll often react to your learned habits rather than the actual situation at hand.

Re: Indifference is a power (2015)

#165

Post by drcongo » Tue, Jan 13, 2026, 4:58 PM UTC

tclancy wrote: post #32

drcongo wrote: post #10

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's so far away from what stoic practice is. Is that really what TikTok tells you?

As someone who has been interested in actual Stoicism for years, yes, there is a whole industry of people monetizing cherry-picked bullet points to serve up what people already want to hear. The fact it all comes with a less-than-subtle sheen of "Western Thought" widens the audience to not just men who don't think real good, but also racists. Happily, now that can be accelerated with AI as we simultaneously remove ac…

I got interested a few years back thanks to Derren Brown's book "Happy" (recommended). I have found it helpful. I can't say I actually do any of the exercises, but it has slightly reframed how I think about my own wellbeing and happiness.

edit: I've missed all this new bite sized version stuff though precisely because I avoid bite size stuff like the plague. TikTok and the TikTokification of everything else can fuck right off. I'm looking at you, YouTube.

Re: Indifference is a power (2015)

#166

Post by nathan_compton » Tue, Jan 13, 2026, 4:58 PM UTC

s1mplicissimus wrote: post #144

nathan_compton wrote: post #101

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't see this as particularly dark or particularly funny. Seems like good advice. Most of our negative emotions are a waste of time and energy. I always try to see things in the greater context of the world: all things are brief, beautiful, and utterly without meaning in the greater scheme of things. If I spend a ton of time wailing and grinding my teeth about shit then I'm just wasting time I could be using to en…

> Most of our negative emotions are a waste of time and energy. In a different frame, most of our negative emotions are there to help us - by signifying that something is wrong. You could be thankful for having them so that you are prompted to investigate what's wrong. It's only when we forget that feelings are only a part of our experience and start to identify with feelings (positive and negative) that trouble aris…

I really mean that wallowing in our negative emotions is a waste of time and energy.

Re: Indifference is a power (2015)

#167

Post by zozbot234 » Tue, Jan 13, 2026, 5:05 PM UTC

threethirtytwo wrote: post #157

emaro wrote: post #150

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I use the term not for traits and behaviours I think are masculine, but are sold as being masculine, which are toxic. An example would be that it's masculine to not cry or show emotions (whereas woman are labeled as "emotional"). Suppressing emotions is nothing gender specific of course, but when certain groups promote that as "masculine", calling that "toxic masculinity" makes sense IMO.

I still think this is where the framing quietly breaks down. What you’re describing is not “masculinity” being toxic, but a particular sales pitch that smuggles bad norms under the masculinity label. Historically, this is exactly how language like “that’s so gay” operated. People didn’t mean “homosexual” in any literal sense. They meant weak, unserious, emotionally incontinent, indulgent. If pressed, the defense was…

> ... As a non-toxic, extremely moral male biological specimen and self-appointed advocate for masculine dignity, I’m fully in favor of men crying, feeling, and communicating. ...

The whole point is that men communicating about their inner emotions and feelings have to learn to be extremely diplomatic about it, lest their communication be misinterpreted by others (intentionally or not!) as them just freaking out and throwing an angry temper tantrum. Men have responsibilities to those around them that ultimately require developing strong discipline and keeping their emotions under check, at least to a very significant extent. This is what the whole notion of "toxic masculinity/femininity/whatever" is getting at; ultimately, uncontrolled anger and other negative emotions can be a whole lot more toxic than simple emotional restraint.

Re: Indifference is a power (2015)

#168

Post by DebtDeflation » Tue, Jan 13, 2026, 5:06 PM UTC

Aurornis wrote: post #66

I find classic Stoicism interesting, but these modern social media and influencer versions of Stoicism feel like something else entirely. The heading and subheading of this article invoke ideas of indifference and warriors and prisoners. This appeals to frustrated people, more often men, who are struggling with emotional regulation and want a solution that feels like a tough response. Maybe there’s something useful i…

>these modern social media and influencer versions of Stoicism feel like something else entirely

Yes, the pop philosophy folks tend to confuse Stoicism with Spartanism, just like they confuse Epicureanism with Hedonism. It also helps to have a basic understanding of ancient Aretaic (Virtue) Ethics and the context in which some of these works were written (e.g., was one work or school of thought developed in response to some other one that preceded it).

As always, it's best to read the original works, and in the case of the Stoics (Epictetus, Aurelius, Seneca) they're really not difficult reads assuming a decent modern translation.

Also stay away from the manosphere influencers who peddle the weird self help stuff you allude to, whether under the guise of Stoicism or anything else.

Re: Indifference is a power (2015)

#169

Post by renewiltord » Tue, Jan 13, 2026, 5:07 PM UTC

“If the rule you followed brought you to this, what use is the rule?”

The primary thing many who follow Stoicism do is tell people how much Stoicism they’re doing.

Every time I see someone espousing Stoicism I never think to myself “I would love to be like that guy”.

These two things together make it seem like it’s just a viral meme. The male equivalent of the TikTok insistence that they won’t date anyone who “doesn’t go to therapy”.

Re: Indifference is a power (2015)

#170

Post by strken » Tue, Jan 13, 2026, 5:12 PM UTC

zxcvasd wrote: post #63

naasking wrote: post #54

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why do undesirable or desirable behaviours need a sex/gender label at all? Asshole behaviour isn't gender-specific. Maybe people should just focus on criticizing specific undesirable behaviours, and praising specific desirable behaviours.

The group of traits often described by "toxic masculinity" are overwhelmingly displayed only by males, so... it makes sense? If you aren't someone who displays that specific bundle of traits/behaviors, I would suggest being stoic about it and not taking the term personally.

In this specific discussion, the traits labelled as toxic masculinity were as follows:

> You’re not allowed to feel things. Emotions make you weak. Just suck it up and power through. Bottle it up.

The person who most embodies these traits for me, in my life, is...my mum. I don't view them as exclusively toxic any more than I view them as exclusively masculine, either. Sometimes you really do just choose to hug your kids even when they were aggravating little twits five minutes ago and you're still mad at them, and that's a good thing.