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Exercise can be nearly as effective as therapy for depression

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Re: Exercise can be nearly as effective as therapy for depression

#161

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Motivation is fleeting but routine persists. When there is something that you want to do regularly (exercise, doing the final boring part of some sideproject, cleaning the house...) you remove willpower from the equation and set a day and a time. For example, everyday from 18 to 19 I work on my sideprojects, or saturdays from 16 to 18 is house cleaning time. There is no question if I want to do it, it is set at that…

I found this to be true, and that it perfectly dovetailed with TFA. When I was at my absolute depth (so far…) back in 2013, I would see my counsellor at 1130 on a Saturday. I’d be able to recount the darkness of the previous 7 days in stark vivid detail, yet cheerfully and not feeling at all depressed in the moment. The counsellor asked what I did on Saturday morning except the session and my answer was, well I do Pa…

That's amazing! I'm so glad for you that you found something that works and which can keep you going!

Re: Exercise can be nearly as effective as therapy for depression

#162
This leads to a fairly obvious conjecture :

That since for 100,000 years humans were roaming the landscape gathering or hunting, and for 10,000 years engaged in heavy agricultural work, is the modern day rise in depression not just correlated but caused by the modern day reduction in daily heavy exercise?

It’s such an obvious idea I am wondering if folks know of any research / studies on it?

Re: Exercise can be nearly as effective as therapy for depression

#163

Earlier quoted context omitted.

All you need to do is go to sleep before 12 every single night and wake up at 7am without fail, hit the gym and crank out a few sets of squats, hit the pool and the sauna, read a chapter of that book, and then cook yourself an amazing breakfast, all before 9am. If you're a real go-getter, though, you'd wake up at 6am and do some vibe coding for an hour on that side hustle. Super simple.

I know you’re being smart but these things are all possible if you want to make them happen

"smart"? I'd say "sarcastic"

Re: Exercise can be nearly as effective as therapy for depression

#164
post #2

This is a finding that keeps coming up, and I've certainly found it true in my life, but there's a significant chicken-and-egg problem in that depression frequently precludes the motivation to exercise, and if you don't already have a deeply-disciplined routine to overcome the lack of motivation, people won't do it. Exhortation to develop those good habits in the good times, I suppose.

Motivation is fleeting but routine persists. When there is something that you want to do regularly (exercise, doing the final boring part of some sideproject, cleaning the house...) you remove willpower from the equation and set a day and a time. For example, everyday from 18 to 19 I work on my sideprojects, or saturdays from 16 to 18 is house cleaning time. There is no question if I want to do it, it is set at that…

> Motivation is fleeting but routine persists.

That makes me think of a philosophical comic on quitting smoking. [0] Rather than cerebral willpower, a lot of value comes from indirectly shaping what your animal-brain does or doesn't encounter/expect every day.

[0] https://existentialcomics.com/comic/13

Re: Exercise can be nearly as effective as therapy for depression

#165
post #87

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> There is no question if I want to do it, it is set at that time and I have to do it, period. Gosh it must be nice to have at least an ordinary amount of executive function skills. Is it really this easy for neurotypical people to build routines? That's really all it takes? I don't see how this removes willpower at all. It just determines what time you have to use it.

All you need to do is go to sleep before 12 every single night and wake up at 7am without fail, hit the gym and crank out a few sets of squats, hit the pool and the sauna, read a chapter of that book, and then cook yourself an amazing breakfast, all before 9am. If you're a real go-getter, though, you'd wake up at 6am and do some vibe coding for an hour on that side hustle. Super simple.

This but unironically. I don't post on LinkedIn or anything. But sometimes it seems like all the agonizing people sometimes do over whether or not they should follow their plan (fitness, diet, productivity) makes it ten times worse.

It can be possible to decide to do something in advance, and then... just do it. The more times you do it the easier it gets. My wife comments on this sometimes. I guess not everyone has this? Maybe it can be learned? I don't know.

Re: Exercise can be nearly as effective as therapy for depression

#166
I exercised for years. I’m talking multiple hours a day. It was a part time job. It never improved my mood.

Some people don’t suffer from chemical imbalances, unhealthy habits ruining their mood, or whatever your snake oil will magically cure. There’s a term called Shit Life Syndrome and some people just have that as their long term situation.

Re: Exercise can be nearly as effective as therapy for depression

#167
post #87

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Motivation is fleeting but routine persists. When there is something that you want to do regularly (exercise, doing the final boring part of some sideproject, cleaning the house...) you remove willpower from the equation and set a day and a time. For example, everyday from 18 to 19 I work on my sideprojects, or saturdays from 16 to 18 is house cleaning time. There is no question if I want to do it, it is set at that…

> There is no question if I want to do it, it is set at that time and I have to do it, period. Gosh it must be nice to have at least an ordinary amount of executive function skills. Is it really this easy for neurotypical people to build routines? That's really all it takes? I don't see how this removes willpower at all. It just determines what time you have to use it.

I have utterly horrible executive function. Diagnosed and everything. Sitting here on HN right now avoiding boring spreadsheet work to finish my day out.

It’s not easy for anyone to develop these style of habits and routines. It’s just hard mode and takes much more effort for folks with executive dysfunction.

The first rule is choose one thing and stick to it. With realistic goals. Mine was: I am going to walk at least 6,000 steps a day. No matter what. Zero excuses.

Since schedules are insanely difficult for me I set none. If I remembered I still needed to walk and I could do it in the moment I simply prioritized it. It’s surprisingly easy to fit in 10 minutes of walk in throughout your day, even when working a desk job. It could simply mean pacing while on conference calls.

Another rule was “if I fail to achieve it one day, I must achieve it the next” to avoid the “all or nothing” mental trap.

This was to the level of getting into bed, checking step counter, and if I was under target literally getting out of bed, putting clothes back on, and walking until I hit it. I had all sorts of technical widgets to enforce this and help remind me.

It totally sucked for the first couple months. Then it started to just become a thing. Then I ramped it up to 12k/day until I hit a weight goal.

It’s the best thing I ever did for my mental health since it started a snowball in other areas of my life. I was able to swap out a few days of steps for an hour workout (beginning with a personal trainer to force me to show up 2 days a week minimum). I was and still am constantly 10 minutes late to my session but no matter what I show up to them.

The weeks I miss them due to schedule conflicts or travel I feel much worse mentally. And it’s easy to give into the anxiety and panic over not having enough time in the day to fit it in after procrastinating on other items. You also start to realize that those other items are probably not as important as you thought.

I find routine and habits over schedule and calendaring are hyper-important for my dysfunction and have leaned into that. It’s more of a “this thing before that thing” sort of deal vs “at 3pm I do the thing” since the latter would go off the rails immediately.

It’s possible. Just the hardest thing I’ve maybe ever accomplished in life so far.

Gonna be different for everyone and you probably need that one moment of clarity to get the initial motivation. The motivation will go away, but the habits and discipline will probably stick around.

Been using this same method to build habits and routine into other areas of my life now as well.

Re: Exercise can be nearly as effective as therapy for depression

#168
post #78

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I wouldn’t phrase it that way. Relying on willpower is a recipe for failure. Humans generally don’t have enough willpower, it goes for most things, even when you don’t have strong physiological forces involved. The key to getting a diet to work is in figuring out how to not require willpower, which means thinking about it differently, forming new habits. Stress and social environment also need attention or they will…

> figuring out how to not require willpower This goes for coping with a lot of executive function problems and disorders. Part of how I have to manage my rather severe ADHD is specifically crafting an environment that's as ADHD friendly as possible, much to my wife's dismay. That means nothing can ever be hidden away or out of sight, otherwise I will immediately forget it exists. It means every bill must be on autopa…

I also have ADHD and i also find living as minimally as possible very helpful. Could you elaborate on more of those tactics that work for you? I am also curious how you apply this to your work life

Re: Exercise can be nearly as effective as therapy for depression

#169
post #158

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I know you’re being smart but these things are all possible if you want to make them happen

People would rather blame external factors and not take responsibility. It’s actually insulting to people who work hard that some people assume they have it easy somehow, like the “must be nice” comment upstream. Not everyone takes the view that you can’t control what happens to you, it’s pretty easy to see who does.

> People would rather blame external factors and not take responsibility.

In my opinion the first step to taking responsibility is acknowledging reality. That reality can includes brains and bodies being different, sometimes extremely so. If someones brain or body is different but they deny it, stick their head in the sand, ignore it, then they are at a disadvantage when they try to take responsibility for something and may fail due to failing to acknowledging reality.

Re: Exercise can be nearly as effective as therapy for depression

#170

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I know you’re being smart but these things are all possible if you want to make them happen

"smart"? I'd say "sarcastic"

"smart" is sometimes short for "smart aleck"
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