EFF launches Age Verification Hub • Hacker News Board

Re: EFF launches Age Verification Hub

#161

Post by techdmn » Thu, Dec 11, 2025, 10:30 PM UTC

thinkingtoilet wrote: post #90

pksebben wrote: post #88

This keeps coming up and we keep having the same debates about what Age Verification isn't. For the folks in the back row: Age Verification isn't about Kids or Censorship, It's about Surveillance Age Verification isn't about Kids or Censorship, It's about Surveillance Age Verification isn't about Kids or Censorship, It's about Surveillance Without even reaching for my tinfoil hat, the strategy at work here is clear […

I am someone who is very privacy focused. I've literally never had a social media account on any platform and I'm 42. From day one of facebook, I never wanted my information online. Like many here, I'm deeply concerned about privacy and surveillance. In real life, we think age verification is a good thing. Kids shouldn't buy porn. Teenagers shouldn't get into bars. etc... There has to be room somewhere for reasonable…

Hate to break it to you, you're on social media right now.

Re: EFF launches Age Verification Hub

#162

Post by stvltvs » Thu, Dec 11, 2025, 10:31 PM UTC

zmmmmm wrote: post #114

I feel like the EFF has stretched a bit far on this one. They need to be advocating for good solutions, not portraying age verification as fundamentally about surveillance and censorship. As many are pointing out zero knowledge proofs exist and resolve most of the issues they are referring to. And it doesn't have to be complex. A government (or bank, or anybody that has an actual reason to know your identity) provide…

What good solutions are there that prevent the age verification service and the website from comparing notes (because Big Brother told them to) and figuring out who you are and what you're doing?

Re: EFF launches Age Verification Hub

#163

Post by rockskon » Thu, Dec 11, 2025, 10:32 PM UTC

zmmmmm wrote: post #108

rockskon wrote: post #83

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Zero knowledge proof is either trivially defeated by re-using the same credentials or doesn't have useful privacy guarantees. There really isn't an in-between here for something like age verification.

It's funny because the same "perfect is the enemy of good" argument is used both to criticize age verification in the first place (why bother if it isn't perfect) but then also to dismiss proprosals to implement it better (why bother if they don't perfectly fix the problem).

The problem is that it isn't even good. It falls squarely in the realm of "we must do something. This is something. Therefore we must do it."

Re: EFF launches Age Verification Hub

#164

Post by raw_anon_1111 » Thu, Dec 11, 2025, 10:34 PM UTC

delusional wrote: post #156

raw_anon_1111 wrote: post #150

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So we make meaningless laws that inconsistently enforced? What do you think happens when little Johnny is caught with weed in his car in a 95% White high income school district vs little Jerome in a 95% Black school district? Also how much “shaping of society” do you expect to happen when you pass a law that no one respects? How many kids do you think a law is going to stop from going to the porn sites that completel…

> How many kids say “I really want to smoke weed but it’s illegally so I won’t do it”? I think it's generally accepted that marijuana use increases after legalization. So yes.

Not according to the CDC with kids

https://www.mpp.org/issues/legalization/adult-use-legalizati...

Re: EFF launches Age Verification Hub

#165

Post by BobaFloutist » Thu, Dec 11, 2025, 10:36 PM UTC

ProjectArcturis wrote: post #15

rlpb wrote: post #11

I'd be OK with an "I am a child" header mandated by law to be respected by service providers (eg. "adult sites" must not permit a client setting the header to proceed). On the client side, mandate that consumer devices that might reasonably be expected to be used by children (every smartphone, tablet, smart TV, etc) have parental controls that set the header. Leave it to parents to set the controls. Perhaps even hold…

I'm not sure that making parents legally culpable for their kids being smart enough to download a new browser is LESS government intrusion.

I think the idea is that the manufacturers are culpable for making a parental restriction mode that's set-and-forget and not easily thwarted from inside the mode and parents are culpable for declining to set it.

Which I still don't love, but is at least more fair.

Re: EFF launches Age Verification Hub

#166

Post by bigstrat2003 » Thu, Dec 11, 2025, 10:38 PM UTC

SilverElfin wrote: post #158

pksebben wrote: post #88

This keeps coming up and we keep having the same debates about what Age Verification isn't. For the folks in the back row: Age Verification isn't about Kids or Censorship, It's about Surveillance Age Verification isn't about Kids or Censorship, It's about Surveillance Age Verification isn't about Kids or Censorship, It's about Surveillance Without even reaching for my tinfoil hat, the strategy at work here is clear […

Politicians in Washington State is proposing not just age verification but also health warnings on adult websites. How is either constitutional? https://www.xbiz.com/news/294260/washington-av-bill-jumps-on...

It's been illegal to sell porn to minors since approximately forever. If that is constitutional (not saying it is, but I'd be surprised if it wasn't since it's such an established practice), then I don't see how requiring age verification on porn sites wouldn't be. Requiring health warnings might be another matter, though. Not sure about that.

Re: EFF launches Age Verification Hub

#167

Post by BobaFloutist » Thu, Dec 11, 2025, 10:42 PM UTC

dragonwriter wrote: post #76

neuroelectron wrote: post #70

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Onlyfans is legal prostitution so we need to protect that. Better to regulate the entire internet with taking your rights than question why it's allowed.

> Onlyfans is legal prostitution No, its legal (in some jurisdictions) pornography. Prostitution on the platform, as well as whatever the legal status is in the set of jurisdictions involved, is also, from what I understand, explicitly against the platform ToS.

I will say that it's a weird legal distinction in many states that paying someone to have sex is illegal unlessss.... you record it and sell the recording. Then it's legal.

Re: EFF launches Age Verification Hub

#168

Post by pksebben » Thu, Dec 11, 2025, 10:46 PM UTC

topkai22 wrote: post #153

pksebben wrote: post #88

This keeps coming up and we keep having the same debates about what Age Verification isn't. For the folks in the back row: Age Verification isn't about Kids or Censorship, It's about Surveillance Age Verification isn't about Kids or Censorship, It's about Surveillance Age Verification isn't about Kids or Censorship, It's about Surveillance Without even reaching for my tinfoil hat, the strategy at work here is clear […

Age verification is absolutely about kids. It’s also being used (or hijacked into) a vehicle for people who want increased surveillance. There is a ton of evidence that there are harms to unrestricted online access for kids and teens (the book The Anxious Generation is cultural touchstone for this topic at this point). There is a real, well reasoned, and valid movement to do something about this problem. The solution…

As many others have mentioned in this thread and others, there are ways - effective and straightforward ways - that we could be protecting our kids from the harms that come with the www.

The harms are real. The solution is a Surveillance Wolf wearing a dead Save The Kids Sheep(tm).

Solutions that might work - RTA headers [0]. More robust parental controls. Not this reimagining of the rules of the internet in service of a fairly vague and ineffective goal. It's like the whole AV concept was designed not to work in the current context at all - almost as if that was the point.

Perhaps I'm going a little out on a limb. I don't think I am - but quick, tell me you need to know where I'm dialing from without asking me where I'm dialing in from.

0 - https://www.rtalabel.org/index.php

Re: EFF launches Age Verification Hub

#169

Post by casey2 » Thu, Dec 11, 2025, 10:47 PM UTC

zmmmmm wrote: post #114

I feel like the EFF has stretched a bit far on this one. They need to be advocating for good solutions, not portraying age verification as fundamentally about surveillance and censorship. As many are pointing out zero knowledge proofs exist and resolve most of the issues they are referring to. And it doesn't have to be complex. A government (or bank, or anybody that has an actual reason to know your identity) provide…

The reality is that even countries that have digital IDs like Belgium which would be 1 of the many requirements of implementing such a zero-knowledge system are pushing for surveillance heavy legislation right now.

Once a system is in place that infringes on rights nobody will modify it to give citizens more rights.

Re: EFF launches Age Verification Hub

#170

Post by micromacrofoot » Thu, Dec 11, 2025, 10:47 PM UTC

Asking for a year of birth is the best solution and always will be. Once kids are old enough to figure that out you're not going to stop them from much.