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A $20 drug in Europe requires a prescription and $800 in the U.S.

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Re: A $20 drug in Europe requires a prescription and $800 in the U.S.

#161

Post by petercooper »

Someone1234 wrote: post #132
petercooper wrote: post #115

However, it’s not all roses. Try getting melatonin in the UK. You can buy it almost anywhere in the US. Same for any first generation antihistamines. Or a jar of painkillers - packets are limited to 16 here. Or lidocaine cream. Whenever I go to the US, I have a shopping list to restock our medicine cabinet.

That's a very selective example. The US controls TONS of hormones, Melatonin just got grandfathered in. If anything the UK system is more self-consistent than the US, even if I think both systems over-protect hormones with a low risk profile (like Melatonin in the UK). As a counter-example, up until fairly recently you could buy Co-codamol (codeine, an opioid) in the UK off-the-shelf (i.e. no script). Which is a cont…

I wasn’t playing a game, but if we must, you can buy jars of naproxen off the shelf in the US as well - prescription only here. And antibiotic ointment, antitussives, antibiotic eye drops, and benzocaine throat spray, just to pick what I see in our cabinet. I only share my own experience though, but I find US pharmacies to be streets ahead in both variety and depth. If other people have other experiences, that is fine and I believe them.

One big benefit, though, is you can legally import or bring in POMs from overseas, a luxury the US does not have.

Re: A $20 drug in Europe requires a prescription and $800 in the U.S.

#162

Post by Spooky23 »

hnuser123456 wrote: post #63
dyauspitr wrote: post #47

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If you don’t have insurance, you’re essentially fucked in the US but this thread is not referencing that situation. My CAT scan was billed for $10,000 but what I paid was about $200 with insurance. Without insurance I would owe $10k.

Why stop the conversation here? And if you don't have insurance but go to an ER (can't be turned away) and end up getting some expensive procedure you can't afford, you can just tell them that you're broke and they negotiate way, way down, or even just forgive it. And it's setup like this to ensure only people who have proper full time jobs or who can write a good enough sob story can get care. Because so many of the…

It’s priced that way because Medicare has to get the best price by law. Everyone else gets a lessor discount, with cash payers getting nothing by default.

It makes sense - the largest payer should get the best price. But it doesn’t make sense because it’s not really a market.

We’d have much better outcomes with a Medicare for all model, and then private insurance could actually be priced with an insurance model and be used as a fringe benefit again.

Re: A $20 drug in Europe requires a prescription and $800 in the U.S.

#163

Post by cyberax »

wagwang wrote: post #26
jaggederest wrote: post #3

It's a very interesting drug. There are a lot of concerns right now around PFAS in water supplies, for example, and Miebo/Evotears are pure PFAS (perfluorohexyloctane) that's instilled directly in the eye, giving you a dose somewhere around a million times higher than levels of concern in drinking water. But it is absolutely revolutionary if you have dry eyes. Quotes include "I feel like my eye is actually too wet no…

What the fuck... what's stopping this from poisoning our water supply?

Teflon is also PFAS. The whole PFAS scare is overblown.

Re: A $20 drug in Europe requires a prescription and $800 in the U.S.

#164

Post by petercooper »

rootusrootus wrote: post #145
petercooper wrote: post #115

However, it’s not all roses. Try getting melatonin in the UK. You can buy it almost anywhere in the US. Same for any first generation antihistamines. Or a jar of painkillers - packets are limited to 16 here. Or lidocaine cream. Whenever I go to the US, I have a shopping list to restock our medicine cabinet.

> Whenever I go to the US, I have a shopping list to restock our medicine cabinet Ha, that's funny, I do something kind of like that when I go to the UK. Though it's just one medicine -- Kwells. Easily available OTC there, not available at all here in the US except as a prescription-only transdermal patch.

Aha! I have heard Americans say they buy Buscopan for IBS when in the Uk as it’s not available at all in the US and it has the same active ingredient! I had no idea it was good for nausea too.

Re: A $20 drug in Europe requires a prescription and $800 in the U.S.

#165

Post by cyberax »

wagwang wrote: post #128
terminalshort wrote: post #79

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That would be 1 liter of the active ingredient, not 1 liter of the eye drop. Also I don't believe that 1 ppt of this stuff is harmful when people are putting it directly in their eyes without severe harm.

Maybe, maybe not, maybe like teflon, the real poison is an intermediate ingredient, but I think its bullshit that we're just creating chemicals that linger in our water supply for eternity. You literally cannot find anyone in America without traces of the dangerous variant of the PFAS in their blood stream. Like every sip of water is some ridiculous dupont cocktail and we have to tolerate it because people have dry e…

> You literally cannot find anyone in America without traces of the dangerous variant of the PFAS in their blood stream.

You also can't find anybody in the world without traces of lead, arsenic, uranium, radium, and other chemical elements in their blood.

> Why cant you just use theratears?

Because they don't work.

Re: A $20 drug in Europe requires a prescription and $800 in the U.S.

#166

Post by raverbashing »

rootusrootus wrote: post #145
petercooper wrote: post #115

However, it’s not all roses. Try getting melatonin in the UK. You can buy it almost anywhere in the US. Same for any first generation antihistamines. Or a jar of painkillers - packets are limited to 16 here. Or lidocaine cream. Whenever I go to the US, I have a shopping list to restock our medicine cabinet.

> Whenever I go to the US, I have a shopping list to restock our medicine cabinet Ha, that's funny, I do something kind of like that when I go to the UK. Though it's just one medicine -- Kwells. Easily available OTC there, not available at all here in the US except as a prescription-only transdermal patch.

+1

This is the "exception that proves the rule" I guess

One of the best OTC medicine for motion sickeness hand down

Dramamine is (almost literally) a bad joke

Re: A $20 drug in Europe requires a prescription and $800 in the U.S.

#167

Post by fy20 »

eszed wrote: post #117
christkv wrote: post #67

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Most countries have both public and private. In Spain I have public and then private on top of that which 220 eur a month for a family of four all services included and no co-pay. The public option works to set a roof on what private insurance can charge.

> The public option works to set a roof on what private insurance can charge. Exactly! This is what no one in the US seems to understand. My encounters with private clinics and hospitals in the UK (all 10+ years ago, at this point) were unbelievably luxurious, at prices that (totally, completely free-market driven, mind you) were affordable on middle-class incomes. Or, yeah: there's private medical insurance, also fr…

Right, and in my country you can even mix and match it.

I went to see my GP, paid for by public health, they referred me to a specialist.

I chose to pay €100 to see a private doctor who was available sooner (the next day) and had better ratings.

They referred me for an MRI which was done at another private provider, paid for by public health.

I went back to the private doctor and paid for a non-surgical treatment, which wasn't available on public health.

If that doesn't work, later I can opt for surgery, paid for by public health.

And even more importantly: There is one system that tracks all diagnoses, treatment, medication etc used by both public and private healthcare providers, so medical history is available instantly to everyone.

Re: A $20 drug in Europe requires a prescription and $800 in the U.S.

#168

Post by ekianjo »

xnorswap wrote: post #39
Insanity wrote: post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think that might be worse than just having the high price. Such a kafka-esque systems just to get medicine.

The best thing about universal healthcare isn't how much money I may or may not have to pay, it's that I literally don't once have to think about a bill or filling out a form to avoid paying too much. I wouldn't care if I ended up paying more in tax than I would in an insurance model. The benefit is being able to 100% focus on my health instead of navigating a system to try to reduce what I'm paying. When you're diag…

In many countries where "universal healthcare" actually exists, you end up with waiting lists and rationed care. Choose your poison.

Re: A $20 drug in Europe requires a prescription and $800 in the U.S.

#169

Post by throwawaylaptop »

ilovetux wrote: post #102
dyauspitr wrote: post #47

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If you don’t have insurance, you’re essentially fucked in the US but this thread is not referencing that situation. My CAT scan was billed for $10,000 but what I paid was about $200 with insurance. Without insurance I would owe $10k.

The insurance company is not a charity. You will (or already have) pay the full price.

Im 41 and haven't been to a doctor since I was 10. I have had insurance coverage my whole life. So technically I (my employer on my behalf I guess) have paid for many other people's services. I have been a huge net positive for insurance companies. Other people get way more services than they ever paid.

Re: A $20 drug in Europe requires a prescription and $800 in the U.S.

#170

Post by standardUser »

petercooper wrote: post #115

However, it’s not all roses. Try getting melatonin in the UK. You can buy it almost anywhere in the US. Same for any first generation antihistamines. Or a jar of painkillers - packets are limited to 16 here. Or lidocaine cream. Whenever I go to the US, I have a shopping list to restock our medicine cabinet.

I save my shopping list for Puerto Vallarta where I'll buy a small amount of benzos instead of battling it out with a US doctor for a prescription. But don't try that in Guadalajara - it's in the same state but the restrictions are far stricter.

And if you're a fan of Benadryl (diphenhydramine), don't expect to buy it in Latin America. It virtually doesn't exist.

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