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A $20 drug in Europe requires a prescription and $800 in the U.S.

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Re: A $20 drug in Europe requires a prescription and $800 in the U.S.

#21

Post by amiga386 »

aucisson_masque wrote: post #9

in some part of europe, we have national healthcare so basically people don't think they are paying their medications, like there was some magic money. in that case, you don't care if you drug cost 10€ or 2000€ because you aren't spending a single € from your own wallet, at least if you don't factor in taxes. Contrary to the USA where it's a much more responsible market, people do pay for the medications or they get…

> in some part of europe, we have national healthcare so basically people don't think they are paying their medications, like there was some magic money.

Europe is a big place, buddy. Which particular part are "we" from today?

NHS England has NICE (National Institute for Health and Care Excellence), which does the cost-benefit analysis for all medicines prescribed, nationally. It frequently decides medicines aren't worth the money. If you, as a private citizen, want that particular medicine, you can waste your own money on it. NHS England does not have a moral hazard problem.

The NHS also spends money trying to convince people to exercise, eat well, lose weight, not smoke, look for early signs of cancer, etc., because they find that relatively tiny amounts of money on these campaigns results in massive, massive savings from not having to treat so much preventable disease later in life.

Re: A $20 drug in Europe requires a prescription and $800 in the U.S.

#22

Post by khannn »

brianherbert wrote: post #14
Aurornis wrote: post #8

FYI for anyone who isn't familiar with the wacky US insurance situation: Nobody in the US actually pays $800 for the drug. That's the "list price" for insurance companies to pay. Even insurance companies don't pay that price because they negotiate their own rates with the drug companies, which are lower. Then the drug companies come in and offer a "savings card" which you apply at the pharmacy like another layer of i…

These "savings cards" have a maximum annual benefit applied to them so for those on insurance that do not cover those expensive medications or who are self-paying use up the benefits before year end and do in fact eventually pay full sticker price.

I was on a blood thinner and the medication was very pricey. Didn't have insurance and the "savings card" covered fuck all unless you had insurance. There are three blood thinners on the US market and they all cost a lot.

Re: A $20 drug in Europe requires a prescription and $800 in the U.S.

#23

Post by picafrost »

The US is a GDP ponzi scheme disguised as an economy. The silly prices exist to shuffle money between pharmaceutical companies, PBMs, insurers, pharmacies, hospitals, and who knows what other intermediaries. Everyone takes a cut and can put large revenues on their balance sheet.

The US today is structurally dependent on this sort of cash migration. If all Americans suddenly began to save 10%+ of their income every month (also structurally impossible for most), GDP would dramatically contract.

These things aren't broken. They are by design.

Re: A $20 drug in Europe requires a prescription and $800 in the U.S.

#24

Post by averageRoyalty »

Insanity wrote: post #12
Aurornis wrote: post #8

FYI for anyone who isn't familiar with the wacky US insurance situation: Nobody in the US actually pays $800 for the drug. That's the "list price" for insurance companies to pay. Even insurance companies don't pay that price because they negotiate their own rates with the drug companies, which are lower. Then the drug companies come in and offer a "savings card" which you apply at the pharmacy like another layer of i…

I think that might be worse than just having the high price. Such a kafka-esque systems just to get medicine.

Absolutely. I'd prefer to go to the pharmacy and just pay my $20 and go.

Re: A $20 drug in Europe requires a prescription and $800 in the U.S.

#25

Post by yread »

ThePowerOfFuet wrote: post #13
Aurornis wrote: post #8

FYI for anyone who isn't familiar with the wacky US insurance situation: Nobody in the US actually pays $800 for the drug. That's the "list price" for insurance companies to pay. Even insurance companies don't pay that price because they negotiate their own rates with the drug companies, which are lower. Then the drug companies come in and offer a "savings card" which you apply at the pharmacy like another layer of i…

All that handwaving and apology but yet >the actual cash-pay price is $225 So still 11x the price, plus whatever the prescription costs. Unforgiveable.

Well but that $225 feeds and clothes a lot of the people who spend all day designing these cards and systems around that

Re: A $20 drug in Europe requires a prescription and $800 in the U.S.

#26

Post by wagwang »

jaggederest wrote: post #3

It's a very interesting drug. There are a lot of concerns right now around PFAS in water supplies, for example, and Miebo/Evotears are pure PFAS (perfluorohexyloctane) that's instilled directly in the eye, giving you a dose somewhere around a million times higher than levels of concern in drinking water. But it is absolutely revolutionary if you have dry eyes. Quotes include "I feel like my eye is actually too wet no…

What the fuck... what's stopping this from poisoning our water supply?

Re: A $20 drug in Europe requires a prescription and $800 in the U.S.

#27

Post by heathrow83829 »

aucisson_masque wrote: post #9

in some part of europe, we have national healthcare so basically people don't think they are paying their medications, like there was some magic money. in that case, you don't care if you drug cost 10€ or 2000€ because you aren't spending a single € from your own wallet, at least if you don't factor in taxes. Contrary to the USA where it's a much more responsible market, people do pay for the medications or they get…

i think healthcare is one market where capitalism just doesn't work well at all. for those areas, it actually makes sense to introduce hard or soft price ceilings.

Re: A $20 drug in Europe requires a prescription and $800 in the U.S.

#28

Post by autoexec »

Aurornis wrote: post #8

FYI for anyone who isn't familiar with the wacky US insurance situation: Nobody in the US actually pays $800 for the drug. That's the "list price" for insurance companies to pay. Even insurance companies don't pay that price because they negotiate their own rates with the drug companies, which are lower. Then the drug companies come in and offer a "savings card" which you apply at the pharmacy like another layer of i…

> So a lot of people who take this drug in the US actually pay $0 because they sign up for this card.

They do not pay $0 because the insurance company raises the rates for all of their customers to cover the cost of all the red tape and time spent negotiating with drug companies over their bullshit. The insurance companies aren't eating those costs, they're profiting from them and it's us who end up footing the bill. By the time you factor in the unnecessary time, staff, record keeping, etc. the actual cost for the $20 drug will be even more than the $800 sticker price.

No matter how our crooked system twists things to make it look otherwise they always make you pay. One way or another.

Re: A $20 drug in Europe requires a prescription and $800 in the U.S.

#30

Post by theMMaI »

wagwang wrote: post #26
jaggederest wrote: post #3

It's a very interesting drug. There are a lot of concerns right now around PFAS in water supplies, for example, and Miebo/Evotears are pure PFAS (perfluorohexyloctane) that's instilled directly in the eye, giving you a dose somewhere around a million times higher than levels of concern in drinking water. But it is absolutely revolutionary if you have dry eyes. Quotes include "I feel like my eye is actually too wet no…

What the fuck... what's stopping this from poisoning our water supply?

The absolute miniscule volume
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