Bikeshedding, or why I want to build a laptop • Hacker News Board

Re: Bikeshedding, or why I want to build a laptop

#161

Post by makeitdouble » Sun, Dec 07, 2025, 1:03 PM UTC

MrGreenTea wrote: post #96

spankibalt wrote: post #70

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> "I've never been happy with a trackpad: they feel too imprecise" Same for me, Apple included; trackpads are just a huge waste of space to me. Have to say that my hand-eye coordination is way above that of the average computer user, and my workflows involving complementary HIDs always focused on trackballs, digtizer pens, as well as gamepads/game controllers for other, non-game related stuff. I also don't get why pe…

I don't understand what you mean by "outdated form factors". Are you saying that the laptop is an outdated form factor? What "market realities" are you noticing? Really interested in your viewpoint and would be grateful for some clarification.

Not OP, but basically share that opinion.

Traditional laptops have their place, but I think most people would be better served by other form factors.

For instance a good amount of people use their laptops basically like a desktop and dock it to an external screen 90% of the time. For that specific use case, a tablet form factor will have better thermals, and lend itself better to have a separate and better keyboard and pointing device. The other 10% will still be a decent experience with either the detachable keyboard or straight bringing along an external keyboard if the work sequences are exepected to be long enough.

People more on the go but needing a powerful setup when needed now have access to devices that can expand the screen real estate beyond the 15" traditional limitation. Lenovo has been pushing the enveloppe on that front, and the build quality isn't bad either.

Gaming laptops are better served by Steam Deck/ROG Ally type of form factors etc.

The market is decently diversified and the form factors I'm describing are as far as I know selling better numbers than people clinging to Thinkpads and macbooks would expect.

Re: Bikeshedding, or why I want to build a laptop

#162

Post by arcanemachiner » Sun, Dec 07, 2025, 1:04 PM UTC

scrollaway wrote: post #93

chrisandchris wrote: post #85

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You know as a company that you have gone out of the ability to create something if you come up first with name changes of existing products. Looking at you, Office (or whatever your name is today).

Google Workspace hasn’t changed its name in a few years now. Do you think it’s due for a change or has it finally sobered up?

I have no idea what that is. Is it the Google suite of office tools or something?

Re: Bikeshedding, or why I want to build a laptop

#163

Post by pjmlp » Sun, Dec 07, 2025, 1:09 PM UTC

ThunderSizzle wrote: post #158

pjmlp wrote: post #83

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What to expect, when Microsoft decides to do stupid things like renaming .NET Core into .NET 5, thus everyone that doesn't pay attention to Microsoft world keeps thinking .NET is Windows only, as the .NET Framework was always known as plain .NET in most circles.

I can't tell you how many people are confused that (1) Microsoft dropped "Core" from .NET 5+, and that .NET 4.8 and .NET 8 are not the same thing. Microsoft jumped from .NET Core 3 to .Net (Core) 5 to avoid people conflating .NET Core 4 with .NET Framework 4. Now tech adjacent people in my world, including people from Microsoft, think .NET Core 8 and .NET Framrwork 4.8 refer to the same version. Luckily that problem…

Easy, do you want links to podcast interviews from .NET team members where they mention this still being an issue with .NET adoption outside traditional Microsoft shops.

For example, see Mandy Mantiquila interview with Nick Chapsas, if I remember correctly it is one of them.

Re: Bikeshedding, or why I want to build a laptop

#164

Post by makeitdouble » Sun, Dec 07, 2025, 1:16 PM UTC

wiseowise wrote: post #155

makeitdouble wrote: post #149

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If I dare to ask, why do you care so much about naming ? It's something that has always bothered me in reviews as well. To me a product is primarily supposed to be used, and I also don't want to buy a new one every 6 months. For instance I like my headphones very much, been using them for 4 years now. I did a ton of research and read a bunch of reviews before buying them, and to keep the exact and unique product name…

Maybe because I want to know if Xbox ASS is better than Xbox PEE without having a manual on my hands? Or what Microsoft Surface pro ai copilot means?

When you go looking for a car will you buy the Peugeot 3008 because it has a higher number than the 208 ? Or will you do research, go to the company site and look at the product description, compare the specs and make your opinion about what best fits your needs ?

Right now there's about 5 lines of Surface devices with each their very specific purpose and tradeoffs. I'd be shocked at someone buying one solely based on the how the name sounds or what they assume it means without looking at the actual product pages.

Re: Bikeshedding, or why I want to build a laptop

#165

Post by layer8 » Sun, Dec 07, 2025, 1:17 PM UTC

npodbielski wrote: post #150

layer8 wrote: post #147

I just don’t use laptops. My employer never required me to use one, and with remote logins and WFH there is also little need for mobility. A desktop setup is necessary for good ergonomics anyway, and then you may as well use a desktop computer. In a pinch, I can use an iPad with remote desktop on the go, but the need rarely arises.

I agree but as the HN post few months ago about a guy who uses glasses to connect to his phone as an external screen, this would be great. Having ability to work outside and have a nice big screen... thought of working in the summer outside and have a daily dose of vitamin D... Working entire days in my office in my house is comfortable but kind of sad. When you are finally done it is late and sun is setting already.

I’m lucky to have flexible working hours, so I can take breaks during the day and go out for errands, for a walk or bike ride.

Working outside in the sun sounds nice, but display/glasses technology isn’t quite there yet for that, and I’d still want an ergonomic chair and proper ergonomic keyboard on a stable surface (table), for any extended work.

Re: Bikeshedding, or why I want to build a laptop

#166

Post by kasey_junk » Sun, Dec 07, 2025, 1:44 PM UTC

dcanelhas wrote: post #107

rikafurude21 wrote: post #103

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Selfish how, because he clearly does not say that upgradability or customizability are bad things? Its also not like hes proposing something that isnt reality for most manufacturers, especially Apple.

I think the selfishness here is related to being fine with generating a pile of electronic waste that becomes a problem for everyone else, as long as he can avoid carrying a few ounces extra. It's hard to recycle electronics, because separating materials that are chemically bonded together is very labor intensive and isn't worth it from the price of aluminum, copper, lithium, etc alone. It would have to cost more to…

You’ve identified the real problem. This person’s preferences (and yours and mine) are guided by externalities being priced poorly.

If the consumer was responsible for the real cost of disposal and someone said “I don’t care about repairing it” then it wouldn’t be selfish at all.

But it’s extremely hard to do that. Because if you price proper disposal higher you’ll just get improperly disposed stuff.

A tax on the products to account for this is highly regressive. It’s a complicated muddle.

Re: Bikeshedding, or why I want to build a laptop

#167

Post by Delk » Sun, Dec 07, 2025, 1:46 PM UTC

maccard wrote: post #127

forty wrote: post #90

I think the kind of laptop this person wishes should simply be made illegal to make. We cannot sustain having all electric devices being thrown after a year or two, these things need to last, to be repairable and make it easy to grab pieces and materials when they die anyway

I agree with him. My personal laptop is an m1 MacBook Pro, and 5 years on it’s still a better experience than my work laptop which is a high spec dell with an i9 and 32GB ram. I’m more likely to chuck the dell than upgrade it because whatever combination of stuff it’s doing just doesn’t work. Give me something solid that will last 5 -6 years with a serviceable (I don’t care if it’s glued or torx’ed or whatever in, ju…

There are lots of ways of "just not working" but IME the problem with corporate Windows laptops is often the enterprise software crap on them rather than the hardware, necessarily.

My work laptop with a high(ish)-end AMD laptop CPU and reasonable hardware quality drains the battery in a couple of hours. It also doesn't feel any faster than my personal three-year-old more lightweight (also AMD, same brand) laptop. In some cases the private device is faster despite its lower specs. Its battery would also easily last 5 times longer than the work one, probably, if I used it on the road.

(Incidentally, the poor battery life isn't much of a practical concern with the work device either because I need to use it at the desk 98% of the time anyway. But I can certainly see how crappy software and configurations can make using those devices a pain.)

> Give me something solid that will last 5 -6 years with a serviceable (I don’t care if it’s glued or torx’ed or whatever in, just as long as it’s replaceable) battery, and I don’t care if the RAM and SSD is soldered to the chipset.

I'm okay with that, even if I'd personally prefer the serviceability. But I'm honestly not okay with the idea that it's fine to just toss a laptop after two years. I want people who do that to get their own planet.

Also, an 8 GB RAM upgrade makes little sense nowadays but a 16 -> 48 GB or 32 -> 64 GB or 32 -> 96 GB upgrade can actually make an otherwise reasonable device better if the amount of RAM becomes a bottleneck.

Re: Bikeshedding, or why I want to build a laptop

#168

Post by JodieBenitez » Sun, Dec 07, 2025, 2:00 PM UTC

vladvasiliu wrote: post #143

JodieBenitez wrote: post #122

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I actually looked for a desktop trackpad for my desktop pc that is on par with my macbook trackpad. Didn't find one available.

Apple sells an external trackpad. But AFAIK it requires the computer to have Bluetooth. Not sure how well it works with a non-apple os, though.

I suspect it does not work well outside Apple world. And that's kind of the thing with "I want Apple hardware but with Linux software": Software is actually important in the user experience with the hardware.

Re: Bikeshedding, or why I want to build a laptop

#169

Post by class3shock » Sun, Dec 07, 2025, 2:09 PM UTC

procaryote wrote: post #86

The framework model is the reasonable approach to people being finnicky about their laptop specs. You can't sustain "I want it just so" and "it needs to be a cnc-machined glued together brick, engineered to the last gramme" at the same time, without a step change in how we build hardware, but the framework comes pretty close If linux power management got a bit better, and there was a good arm chip, it would be a grea…

The power management is one of my biggest issues with my Framework 16 but I am hoping it gets better over time with newer linux releases as it has for other laptops I've had.

Re: Bikeshedding, or why I want to build a laptop

#170

Post by rcbdev » Sun, Dec 07, 2025, 2:10 PM UTC

systemtest wrote: post #135

morshu9001 wrote: post #79

Earlier quoted context omitted.

And there are two Xbox Ones

Xbox One Kinect, Xbox One non-Kinect, Xbox One S with disc drive, Xbox One S All-Digital Edition, Xbox One X And then you have the various drive options, 500GB, 1TB, 2TB, game bundles, day one edition. We are talking about dozens of variants.

I suspect they were referring to the first Xbox. It used to be colloquially referred to as "Xbox One" before Microsoft decided on their piss-poor naming scheme after the 360.