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Bible and Quran apps flagged NSFW by F-Droid

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Re: Bible and Quran apps flagged NSFW by F-Droid

#161

Post by stopbulying »

orwin wrote: post #70
cvoss wrote: post #55

This is a very problematic choice and as much as I want to think it wasn't malicious, at every turn it sure looks like it's meant to be inflammatory. I can think of exactly one good reason to mark religious content as NSFW (under F-Droid's bizarre and very not normal definition of that word): To protect persons living in areas of the world where association with that religion is ruinous or outright dangerous due to p…

The old testament has depiction of rape and violence. If the new testaments is also tagged nsfw though, I'll claim that their sensitivity is too high.

new testament scripture about slavery: https://www.google.com/search?q=new+testament+scripture+abou...

new testament scripture about killing women and children: https://www.google.com/search?q=new+testament+scripture+abou...

What was "Passion of the Christ" rated, and why?

Re: Bible and Quran apps flagged NSFW by F-Droid

#162

Post by Hizonner »

watwut wrote: post #141
Hizonner wrote: post #61

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> label that accuses the text of being offensive Abrahamic religious texts, and a lot of others as well, are offensive. They clearly and directly glorify oppressive and/or genocidal violence in the past. There's a very strong argument that they demand similar violence in the present and future. They definitely demand a whole bunch of evil and oppressive social institutions. They're more offensive than hardcore porn.…

> They're more offensive than hardcore porn. No they are not. Not unless you are intentionally taking in super weird definition of "offensive" or "hardcore porn". And I am saying that as someone who is not Christian and finds a lot of what Christianity stands for off-putting or even unethical. There is a reason people who want quick individual fun go for porn and not for a bible.

> Not unless you are intentionally taking in super weird definition of "offensive" or "hardcore porn".

I'm sorry, but I find books that say straight out that I should be killed to be a bit on the offensive side. I'm funny that way.

Re: Bible and Quran apps flagged NSFW by F-Droid

#163

Post by Hizonner »

greycol wrote: post #160
watwut wrote: post #141

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> They're more offensive than hardcore porn. No they are not. Not unless you are intentionally taking in super weird definition of "offensive" or "hardcore porn". And I am saying that as someone who is not Christian and finds a lot of what Christianity stands for off-putting or even unethical. There is a reason people who want quick individual fun go for porn and not for a bible.

It's all about interpretation, which is the point where you mark something as not appropriate for children so that parents can actively make the choice on if their kids should be exposed to it. In this case there's very little argument about whether we want more people following the voice in their head to kill their son, which is from the bible, or having vanilla sex, which is the definition of hardcore porn (as oppo…

> whether we want more people following the voice in their head to kill their son

Now, to be fair, the voice did walk that back once it was clear the guy was going to do it. It just needed to be reassured that it was special.

Re: Bible and Quran apps flagged NSFW by F-Droid

#164

Post by Hizonner »

lunias wrote: post #159

NSFW should mean something akin to Not Safe for Work lol. If you're going to use that tag at all, the tag should exist on pretty much anything that exists purely for entertainment value. I would argue that religious texts (as well as sexually explicit scientific articles) are not NSFW, but pretty much every game is.

If you're sitting around reading the Bible when you should be working, why should your boss treat that as better than sitting around playing a game when you should be working?

But originally "NSFW" was meant for stuff you might not want to do on your break. It is true that if you use that kind of definition, these particular apps aren't going to get you in trouble in most workplaces. The official F-Droid definition that people have been quoting is mostly like that too. But the popular definition of "NSFW" has drifted, so users will be confused... which is yet another reason that it's not a category an app repository should be trying to maintain.

Re: Bible and Quran apps flagged NSFW by F-Droid

#165

Post by cma »

jaykru wrote: post #153
cma wrote: post #15

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A Penthouse reading tracker might get flagged NSFW too without much fanfare, even without any content from Penthouse.

It seems like the point of this comment is to concoct an example for which anyone agreeing with the parent comment would supposedly hold an inconsistent opinion. I'll insert my own consistency: neither should be flagged NSFW.

Would a Bible reading tracking app be ok for a kids section if F-Droid had one?

Re: Bible and Quran apps flagged NSFW by F-Droid

#166

Post by Hizonner »

kamikazechaser wrote: post #99

F-Droid are in the FA stage of FAFO. If they don't reverse this, they will find themselves in the FO stage. Anyone can hold the opinion that "religion or its texts are ruinous" but you can never apply it in practice in a liberal democracy (even in secular states) simply because religious and expression rights are legally protected. Don't moral police people especially on something that is as controversial as this.

> religious and expression rights are legally protected.

What "liberal democracy" has laws that tell F-Droid that it has to carry any particular apps, or how it has to mark them, again? There are some places that like to call themselves "liberal democracies" and have "must not carry" laws, but that's as far as it goes (and, on edit, those don't generally aim at religious content).

In fact I think you will probably find that there are no must-carry-religious-content laws anywhere, liberal or not. Even in utterly totalitarian states, the closest anything comes is rules that government spyware, or maybe propaganda, must be installed.

The only "FO" that will or should happen to F-Droid is that it may lose more users and/or contributors one way than the other.

Re: Bible and Quran apps flagged NSFW by F-Droid

#167

Post by lunias »

Hizonner wrote: post #164
lunias wrote: post #159

NSFW should mean something akin to Not Safe for Work lol. If you're going to use that tag at all, the tag should exist on pretty much anything that exists purely for entertainment value. I would argue that religious texts (as well as sexually explicit scientific articles) are not NSFW, but pretty much every game is.

If you're sitting around reading the Bible when you should be working, why should your boss treat that as better than sitting around playing a game when you should be working? But originally "NSFW" was meant for stuff you might not want to do on your break. It is true that if you use that kind of definition, these particular apps aren't going to get you in trouble in most workplaces. The official F-Droid definition t…

Mostly agree, but some people do consult religious texts for work. It doesn't strike me as categorically NSFW, but I think you and I agree that that's the issue: the definition of the NSFW category. Going further, I think it's not possible to define in a way that makes everyone happy; it's not as unambiguous as say, 18+ content, so we should just omit it altogether and let people make up their own minds as to what is safe in their workplace.

Re: Bible and Quran apps flagged NSFW by F-Droid

#168

Post by Hizonner »

lunias wrote: post #167
Hizonner wrote: post #164

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If you're sitting around reading the Bible when you should be working, why should your boss treat that as better than sitting around playing a game when you should be working? But originally "NSFW" was meant for stuff you might not want to do on your break. It is true that if you use that kind of definition, these particular apps aren't going to get you in trouble in most workplaces. The official F-Droid definition t…

Mostly agree, but some people do consult religious texts for work. It doesn't strike me as categorically NSFW, but I think you and I agree that that's the issue: the definition of the NSFW category. Going further, I think it's not possible to define in a way that makes everyone happy; it's not as unambiguous as say, 18+ content, so we should just omit it altogether and let people make up their own minds as to what is…

> Mostly agree, but some people do consult religious texts for work.

Well, sure, if you're a priest/rabbi/pastor/imam/whatever (why isn't there a generic word for this?), you're going to consult religious texts for work.

And if you're a game critic, you'll play games for work.

And if you work at Pornhub, you'll presumably watch porn for work.

Normal jobs don't involve any of them. Presumably we're talking about the norm.

> not as unambiguous as say, 18+ content

I will not take the easy bait. I will not take the easy bait. I will not take the easy bait...

Re: Bible and Quran apps flagged NSFW by F-Droid

#169

Post by guilhas »

So we should expect them to NSFW all manga/anime reading/browsing apps. Clearly many hypersexualise women, possibly minors, normalize sexual abuse, violence, both text and visuals

Probably all social client apps for their addictive characteristics, and unhealthy polarizing content, and generally mental health degrading. Including Facebook, Reddit, fediverse...

Let's be real no one is going to read the bible by accident. It is much easier for a young person to find explicit content in Lemmy/fediverse apps

Re: Bible and Quran apps flagged NSFW by F-Droid

#170

Post by lunias »

Hizonner wrote: post #168
lunias wrote: post #167

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Mostly agree, but some people do consult religious texts for work. It doesn't strike me as categorically NSFW, but I think you and I agree that that's the issue: the definition of the NSFW category. Going further, I think it's not possible to define in a way that makes everyone happy; it's not as unambiguous as say, 18+ content, so we should just omit it altogether and let people make up their own minds as to what is…

> Mostly agree, but some people do consult religious texts for work. Well, sure, if you're a priest/rabbi/pastor/imam/whatever (why isn't there a generic word for this?), you're going to consult religious texts for work. And if you're a game critic, you'll play games for work. And if you work at Pornhub, you'll presumably watch porn for work. Normal jobs don't involve any of them. Presumably we're talking about the n…

> Normal jobs don't involve any of them. Presumably we're talking about the norm.

Agreed. It's context dependent. I don't like the term NSFW because I find it non-specific and subjective. F-Droid's definition seems to be the widely accepted definition which doesn't appear to include religious texts, or games, but does include porn, graphic violence, etc.

> I will not take the easy bait.

;). Presumably because you caught my gist that even commonly used, less ambiguous options are still inadequate.

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