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NL Judge: Meta must respect user's choice of recommendation system

bitsoffreedom.nl

161–170 of 247 posts

Re: NL Judge: Meta must respect user's choice of recommendation system

#161
post #110

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> putting even the slightest barrier between the user and the content drives away vast numbers of people Dear god, yes, please, good. Pass laws that force the bloated companies to lose users. Yes. World = better.

Listen I am all for these big tech companies losing the users but I don't think this was the reason why they wrote this comment or my understanding of it My understanding of the parent comment and the comment above the parent comment was that the grand comment was frustrated on why things can't be subscription based internet instead of a sneaky ad tech which invades our privacy. The comment responding to it basically…

Oh yes I agree that they don't want to

My feeling is that this arrangement is massively negative for people and since we ostensibly live in a democracy we should fix it and they can go fuck themselves.

Re: NL Judge: Meta must respect user's choice of recommendation system

#162
post #72

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Civilizations that think this way get conquered by ones that don't, and afterwards, nobody much cares what they thought.

we are being conquered by google and facebook already. them leaving would be the exact opposite.

fr

Re: NL Judge: Meta must respect user's choice of recommendation system

#163

Judgement (dutch): https://www.bitsoffreedom.nl/wp-content/uploads/2025/10/2025... The judgement requires Meta to change their platforms within 2 weeks so that the user's choice is persistent. If not implemented in 2 weeks, there is a daily penalty of €100'000, up to a maximum of €5 million.

I’m almost hoping Facebook is going to refuse to change, a couple million to BoF would a very nice gift to them.

Re: NL Judge: Meta must respect user's choice of recommendation system

#164
post #84

They need to just ban the ad model and make subscriptions (including free with no ads, if the provider wants it) mandatory. I don't think people understand how the economics of these apps (and websites) work, and it's been so long now that their incorrect assumptions (the feeds are free and the greedy providers shove ads in them) have turned into bedrock beliefs. You pay for instagram with your personal data, which i…

I think people more or less understand that. Nobody likes ads. Everyone realizes that the ads they're seeing are targeted. But I think every web designer knows that putting even the slightest barrier between the user and the content drives away vast numbers of people. Making them enter a credit card -- even if you told them it would never be charged -- would send enormous numbers away. Many won't even create a free a…

What? Just give them an option. Ads or ad free with card.

Re: NL Judge: Meta must respect user's choice of recommendation system

#165

They need to just ban the ad model and make subscriptions (including free with no ads, if the provider wants it) mandatory. I don't think people understand how the economics of these apps (and websites) work, and it's been so long now that their incorrect assumptions (the feeds are free and the greedy providers shove ads in them) have turned into bedrock beliefs. You pay for instagram with your personal data, which i…

What I can't understand is how the ads are still effective, targeted or otherwise.

I've long thought we are going to reach a point where the return on social advertising isn't worth the investment, these models have a crisis and pivot, but it still seems to be going strong.

Re: NL Judge: Meta must respect user's choice of recommendation system

#166

They need to just ban the ad model and make subscriptions (including free with no ads, if the provider wants it) mandatory. I don't think people understand how the economics of these apps (and websites) work, and it's been so long now that their incorrect assumptions (the feeds are free and the greedy providers shove ads in them) have turned into bedrock beliefs. You pay for instagram with your personal data, which i…

> If you don't like it, don't use instagram.

Even that's not enough with the shadow profiles they build on people without accounts. It's more like "if you don't like it, don't use instagram and also make sure none of your friends, coworkers, family, associates, or anywhere you go doesn't use it either. Also make sure you, nor the others mentioned, visit any website using Meta's pixel."

We definitely need laws when an individual effectively can't opt out because of network effects.

Re: NL Judge: Meta must respect user's choice of recommendation system

#167
post #76

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I, as a European, am worried that these rulings, regulations, and the prevailing mindset will lead to companies leaving and result in technological stagnation, due to our inability to compete with global markets. Of course, there is something to be said about the dangers, effectiveness, and societal impact of social media. But companies should have the right to decide how they conduct their business. They should also…

companies leaving [will] result in technological stagnation, due to our inability to compete with global markets on the contrary, companies leaving will allow and force us to develop european alternatives that can actually compete in europe. they don't need to compete on the global market.

Exactly. I’m not worried about this. If Meta leaves, it just opens the door for European alternatives, which means platforms that are easier to oversee. What concerns me more is the AI industry, but business here isn’t backed by private capital, so the willingness to take risks is much lower than in the US, which is a shame.

When it comes to Meta or any other dopamine-driven platform, European society would only gain from their absence. Anyone would do really.

Re: NL Judge: Meta must respect user's choice of recommendation system

#168

They need to just ban the ad model and make subscriptions (including free with no ads, if the provider wants it) mandatory. I don't think people understand how the economics of these apps (and websites) work, and it's been so long now that their incorrect assumptions (the feeds are free and the greedy providers shove ads in them) have turned into bedrock beliefs. You pay for instagram with your personal data, which i…

What I can't understand is how the ads are still effective, targeted or otherwise. I've long thought we are going to reach a point where the return on social advertising isn't worth the investment, these models have a crisis and pivot, but it still seems to be going strong.

Enough people to sustain the model still click. At Meta's scale, you only need a small fraction of clicks and conversions to make it worth it. Meta reaches billions of people, so even a small slice of that is still a huge chunk of people.

There's also a bit of competitive pressure. Even if people get numb to ads, business, especially small businesses, can't afford to not show up if their competitors are still showing up in feeds.

The usual advertising psychology tricks still apply also which is why ads still work. Even if the ad itself doesn't result in a conversion, there's still the exposure effect of someone seeing your brand over and over again in their feed. The more times someone sees it, they'll subconsciously start preferring that brand or see it as more trustworthy. Among other tricks.

Re: NL Judge: Meta must respect user's choice of recommendation system

#169
post #161

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Listen I am all for these big tech companies losing the users but I don't think this was the reason why they wrote this comment or my understanding of it My understanding of the parent comment and the comment above the parent comment was that the grand comment was frustrated on why things can't be subscription based internet instead of a sneaky ad tech which invades our privacy. The comment responding to it basically…

Oh yes I agree that they don't want to My feeling is that this arrangement is massively negative for people and since we ostensibly live in a democracy we should fix it and they can go fuck themselves.

I have edited a bit of the comment and can appreciate it if you read it again but as I have said in some other comments too, there is a social contract between the govt and the citizens and that the citizens should balance / check the govt's rights sometimes and vice versa with judiciary playing a big role too.

another issue which might be is that we are living in a democracy but our options are limited because of the money that flows into these elections.

Is it truly a democracy if its just two options and in my opinion, there is very little that both parties do to fundamentally drastically change the system because of both of them are funded by money donations from large corporations mostly...

They are just different flavours and one might be more preferred than the other for obvious options but even that is not enough and there might be a need for something radical if we truly want to call ourselves democracy and fight against an oligarchy and the sheer influence that big tech has.

I think that we definitely might need to do something as the rights of citizens if we feel like the govt is favouring the big tech or taking decisions that aren't in our interests but that takes real energy but that might be the best way moving forward I am just not sure.

We definitely need some radical change for the economy too and the influence that big tech has. In my opinion we have fought for less and won yet this things seems so hidden that nobody discusses it in real life except here and maybe its hidden because some people might be scared of having all people be educated about this topic as its not in their interests.

To me, I am not sure mate but a lot of the times, to me it seems that people have given hope on radical change, they have accepted things, they have accepted being spied upon so much that they don't even think about it. But as I said in my previous comment that there is definitely a scope of discussion / real change in this I suppose too.

Re: NL Judge: Meta must respect user's choice of recommendation system

#170
post #101

Judgement (dutch): https://www.bitsoffreedom.nl/wp-content/uploads/2025/10/2025... The judgement requires Meta to change their platforms within 2 weeks so that the user's choice is persistent. If not implemented in 2 weeks, there is a daily penalty of €100'000, up to a maximum of €5 million.

Note that the penalty for non-compliance will be forfeited to Bits of Freedom. It's not like a traffic fine that has to be paid to the government. In Dutch this is called a "last onder dwangsom": an injuctive order enforced by a conditional fine.

As an addition, 5 million is a lot for BoF. At the end of 2024 their balance was a little over 1.8 million EUR. Even a single day's worth of coercive fine (100k EUR) would be meaningful to them.

Their annual report is online at https://2024.bitsoffreedom.nl/en/ for people who want to learn more.

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