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Britain to introduce compulsory digital ID for workers

reuters.com

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Re: Britain to introduce compulsory digital ID for workers

#161

Post by AlecSchueler »

arrowsmith wrote: post #122
incone123 wrote: post #113

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I have never seen a report of a business ending because of a fine. I have seen reports of hospitality business having to close because they lost their alcohol licence, where the licencee employing illegal immigrants was deemed not to be a fit and proper person.

On paper, the punishment for hiring illegal labour is £45k per worker for the first offence and up to £60k for repeat offences[0]. That's enough to ruin a small business. Whether or not these laws are actually enforced is another matter. [Insert obligatory reference to Turkish barbershops]. But I've been asked to show ID at every job I've ever had, so companies obviously care about it even if the risk is low. [0] sou…

> Insert obligatory reference to Turkish barbershops

Is the implied assertion that the majority of Turkish traders are operating illegally?

Re: Britain to introduce compulsory digital ID for workers

#162

Post by AlecSchueler »

tim333 wrote: post #151
mechanicum wrote: post #148

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don’t think so, no. This is how it works today: https://www.gov.uk/check-job-applicant-right-to-work If your new hire is a British or Irish citizen, you ask for their passport on their first day and retain a photo/scan. In most cases this means that a layperson has to verify that the (possibly foreign) document is genuine, but I don’t think fake passports are a statistically meaningful problem. If they have a visa…

Except there's no obligation to have a passport. That says if you don't you need a birth certificate and an official letter showing a national insurance number. I guess the new thing would substitute for that?

> Except there's no obligation to have a passport.

No but if you don't have it then you can't show it.

Re: Britain to introduce compulsory digital ID for workers

#163

Post by MrToadMan »

rich_sasha wrote: post #154
MrToadMan wrote: post #132

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Depends on if you are looking at this in terms of numbers of people or cost. The Home Office annual spend on processing asylum seekers has ballooned from just under £1 billion to near £5 billion in the space of 5 years, which is 1/3 of the estimated £14 billion raised from the unpopular National Insurance increase.

This does indeed seem like a crazy high number. Even then, what fraction of all asylum seekers comes via small boats, vs other means? I believe the UK is entirely within its right to send small boats asylum seekers back to France, since it is a safe country. International conventions on asylum seekers state this - you are not entitled to drive thru the whole of Europe then demand asylum specifically in the UK. I don'…

From what I've read, about 1/3 of all asylum seekers over the last 7 years arrived via small boat crossings.

Looking forward though, about 90% of those arriving in small boat crossings are currently going on to seek asylum and the average annual cost of supporting an asylum seeker during their claim has risen to an estimated £41k, so for ~30k arrivals this year, the financial cost of not processing these claims promptly could increase that overall annual bill further still.

Also, in the first year of processing, costs may be drawn from the overseas aid budget (which was recently shrunk). This results in possibly 1/5 of the overseas aid budget being used for costs associated with processing asylum claims, which perhaps doesn't match most people's expectations as to what overseas aid should be used for.

I think that's why even though the number of people involved in these crossings is small compared to net migration, it has a big financial impact.

Re: Britain to introduce compulsory digital ID for workers

#164

Post by arrowsmith »

AlecSchueler wrote: post #161
arrowsmith wrote: post #122

Earlier quoted context omitted.

On paper, the punishment for hiring illegal labour is £45k per worker for the first offence and up to £60k for repeat offences[0]. That's enough to ruin a small business. Whether or not these laws are actually enforced is another matter. [Insert obligatory reference to Turkish barbershops]. But I've been asked to show ID at every job I've ever had, so companies obviously care about it even if the risk is low. [0] sou…

> Insert obligatory reference to Turkish barbershops Is the implied assertion that the majority of Turkish traders are operating illegally?

It's a popular stereotype in the UK (although it only seems to have arisen in the last year or so) that "Turkish barbershops" are a front for money laundering.

They're certainly suspicious: all across the country, high street retailers are going bust, and yet somehow all these barbershops, nail salons, takeaway joints etc are staying in business, able to afford prime commercial real estate even though you never see anyone in there getting their hair cut or their nails done.

I don't know why the Turks in particular are being singled out, but that's the meme. The "American Candy Stores" in London are another famous example.

Re: Britain to introduce compulsory digital ID for workers

#165

Post by angulardragon03 »

Nursie wrote: post #143
angulardragon03 wrote: post #124

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The counterpoint to this is obviously that the requirement to present ID to vote is tantamount to voter suppression - iirc there is no “free” form of ID in the UK. As an ex-Brit I am also used to carrying an ID and a drivers license, and I’ve always found it quite weird that you can’t get an ID card of any kind that isn’t a full-fledged passport or a drivers license.

I mean I guess this new thing is going to be free? I also don't live in the UK any more, still a brit and not yet Australian, but I have had to adjust to it being necessary to carry your license here when driving. It means I can't really leave home without my wallet, which is odd. We're getting electronic licenses before long though, hopefully.

Honestly no idea. Hopefully! And hopefully you’ll be able to vote with it.

I just have a magnetic wallet on the back of my iPhone with the two cards and my travel card, so I always have them. I don’t carry a physical payment card or cash so don’t need a wallet otherwise

Re: Britain to introduce compulsory digital ID for workers

#166

Post by AlecSchueler »

arrowsmith wrote: post #164
AlecSchueler wrote: post #161

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Insert obligatory reference to Turkish barbershops Is the implied assertion that the majority of Turkish traders are operating illegally?

It's a popular stereotype in the UK (although it only seems to have arisen in the last year or so) that "Turkish barbershops" are a front for money laundering. They're certainly suspicious: all across the country, high street retailers are going bust, and yet somehow all these barbershops, nail salons, takeaway joints etc are staying in business, able to afford prime commercial real estate even though you never see a…

> barbershops, nail salons, takeaway joints

There's an old saying where I'm from that the barbershop is the safest line of work because everyone needs their hair cut.

Where I am, admittedly in the Netherlands but I grew up in the UK and haven't noticed a huge difference, nail salons are always quite full when I pass, and I see food delivery drivers almost every time I look out the window. Similarly the barbers always seem to have clients. Could be the time of day you look?

Just going to throw it out there that it's a bit disconcerting to see these kind of criminal stereotypes associated with a certain people on HN.

Re: Britain to introduce compulsory digital ID for workers

#167

Post by cdsghh »

viraptor wrote: post #158
cdsghh wrote: post #105

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I have been doing so for years, never had a problem.

You have not been proving your UK address with your account abroad. You may have used it for other purposes, but not that.

I have done that once too, just changed the account address to my UK address and printed a PDF statement. No problem whatsoever.

But anyway, you can just get utilies and pay with foreign account. This gets you an utility bill.

Re: Britain to introduce compulsory digital ID for workers

#169

Post by andyjohnson0 »

arrowsmith wrote: post #131
pbhjpbhj wrote: post #112

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Legally and morally? What is your solution?

Stick them in processing centres until they can be deported. Send a clear message to anyone who might come that it won't work, you won't get in, we won't give you anything, don't risk your life or waste your money. Australia did exactly this (in the face of howling opposition) and it worked: illegal boat arrivals dropped from ~20,000 per year to almost zero. Thousands of people used to drown attempting the crossing,…

I'm genuinely wondering how harsh you'd be willing to be to get what you want.

What would you do if an individual can't be deported because no country will accept them? Or if their country of origin is likely to kill or torture them? Or if no commercial carrier is willing to risk operating to that country? Would you be willing to deport unaccompanied children with no guarantee that they'd be cared for?

Re: Britain to introduce compulsory digital ID for workers

#170

Post by throw-the-towel »

rock_artist wrote: post #70
mrtksn wrote: post #38

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The banks and service providers can ask for your digital ID, the employers can ask for your digital ID and when that becomes the standart you will have very hard time to have a life in UK without having all the permissions. Most of EU and many other countries have something like that, at least you have a citizenship or resident number that they can check against to see what's your situation. In UK though, everything…

> In UK though, everything is run over proof of address and it's quite annoying for new immigrants(legal or not) because its circular. The circular issue is quite similar to Spain. Where in order to obtain residency you need an address. But for being able to rent, most likely you’ll need a bank account and ideally a Spanish identification number. But for having a local bank account you need an address. Similar to the…

Ditto for France, except that it's de facto illegal to rent a place without having a bank account.
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