Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

Britain to introduce compulsory digital ID for workers

reuters.com

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

151–160 of 809 posts

Re: Britain to introduce compulsory digital ID for workers

#151

Post by tim333 »

mechanicum wrote: post #148
remarkEon wrote: post #21

>The proposals are the government's latest bid to tackle illegal immigration, with the new ID being a form of proof of a citizen's right to live and work in the UK. How does a digital ID solve an illegal immigration problem? I watched the video and the suggestion is that this makes it easier for employers to verify that someone is authorized to work. Is that actually true? I don't live in the UK and have not visited…

I don’t think so, no. This is how it works today: https://www.gov.uk/check-job-applicant-right-to-work If your new hire is a British or Irish citizen, you ask for their passport on their first day and retain a photo/scan. In most cases this means that a layperson has to verify that the (possibly foreign) document is genuine, but I don’t think fake passports are a statistically meaningful problem. If they have a visa…

Except there's no obligation to have a passport.

That says if you don't you need a birth certificate and an official letter showing a national insurance number. I guess the new thing would substitute for that?

Re: Britain to introduce compulsory digital ID for workers

#152

Post by arrowsmith »

calcifer wrote: post #142
arrowsmith wrote: post #86

Earlier quoted context omitted.

“Nothing much seems to be working” because the government is completely unserious about stopping the boats and is unwilling to do any of the things that might actually work. They could stop them in a week if they actually wanted to.

What are the options legally available to them? They have their own experts, but it sounds like you have a novel idea that hasn't occurred to anyone before.

> legally

They're the ones who make the laws?

Re: Britain to introduce compulsory digital ID for workers

#153

Post by rich_sasha »

TheChaplain wrote: post #129
rich_sasha wrote: post #98

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The small boats crossing are a small fraction of immigration. Some Google number claims 37k people got in this way in 2024. With net migration hovering around 0.8-1m people per year, arrivals must be well above this number (surely some people are leaving, making the net number smaller). But even then, this is less than 5% of the legal immigration, and probably a lot less than that. I'm not saying it doesn't need addr…

Uhm are you sure about those numbers? 0.8m is like on the average a whole county in the UK, and such massive influx would destroy the housing- and job market. Not to mention pressure on schools and healthcare.

Exactly, this is what I am saying. The 0.8-1m number is the legal, net migration into the UK, very significant, and adding to the downsides people associate with immigration. It's not all downsides etc etc but still.

The 37k small boats migration is very small in comparison. Plus there's illegal immigration not via small boats - overstayed visas etc.

Hence my point that the overfocus on small boats crossings seems misplaced to me.

Re: Britain to introduce compulsory digital ID for workers

#154

Post by rich_sasha »

MrToadMan wrote: post #132
rich_sasha wrote: post #98

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The small boats crossing are a small fraction of immigration. Some Google number claims 37k people got in this way in 2024. With net migration hovering around 0.8-1m people per year, arrivals must be well above this number (surely some people are leaving, making the net number smaller). But even then, this is less than 5% of the legal immigration, and probably a lot less than that. I'm not saying it doesn't need addr…

Depends on if you are looking at this in terms of numbers of people or cost. The Home Office annual spend on processing asylum seekers has ballooned from just under £1 billion to near £5 billion in the space of 5 years, which is 1/3 of the estimated £14 billion raised from the unpopular National Insurance increase.

This does indeed seem like a crazy high number.

Even then, what fraction of all asylum seekers comes via small boats, vs other means? I believe the UK is entirely within its right to send small boats asylum seekers back to France, since it is a safe country. International conventions on asylum seekers state this - you are not entitled to drive thru the whole of Europe then demand asylum specifically in the UK.

I don't want to come across as uncaring, I'm sure there are tragedies that drive people to doing this, that doesn't mean the UK has to also mismanage the process on its side.

Re: Britain to introduce compulsory digital ID for workers

#156

Post by detaro »

rich_sasha wrote: post #154
MrToadMan wrote: post #132

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Depends on if you are looking at this in terms of numbers of people or cost. The Home Office annual spend on processing asylum seekers has ballooned from just under £1 billion to near £5 billion in the space of 5 years, which is 1/3 of the estimated £14 billion raised from the unpopular National Insurance increase.

This does indeed seem like a crazy high number. Even then, what fraction of all asylum seekers comes via small boats, vs other means? I believe the UK is entirely within its right to send small boats asylum seekers back to France, since it is a safe country. International conventions on asylum seekers state this - you are not entitled to drive thru the whole of Europe then demand asylum specifically in the UK. I don'…

The UK was indeed part of treaty system that meant other states had to "take back" asylum seekers that traveled through them to the UK, but it decided it was in its best interest to quit that a few years ago, so France is a lot less motivated to do that now.

Re: Britain to introduce compulsory digital ID for workers

#157

Post by viraptor »

monerozcash wrote: post #58
viraptor wrote: post #54

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If anything it could help legal immigration. There's a bootstrapping issue where you need a utility bill to open a bank account and a bank account to get paid and get paid to pay the utility bill. And also need all 3 to rent a property to live in. You can choose the right providers to work around that with just your passport, but that involves a bit of work and research. No idea how that would solve anything illegal…

Presumably most legal immigrants already have bank accounts overseas and do not suffer from this bootstrapping issue.

Most companies will not pay a local employee to an international amount. You're also going to pay quite large fees for any transfers if you wanted to pay bills. Also, the account abroad is not a proof of address in the UK which is the thing you want from statements.

Re: Britain to introduce compulsory digital ID for workers

#158

Post by viraptor »

cdsghh wrote: post #105
piperswe wrote: post #74

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Good luck paying rent/utilities in the UK, or proving a UK address, with a foreign (especially non-SEPA) bank account

I have been doing so for years, never had a problem.

You have not been proving your UK address with your account abroad. You may have used it for other purposes, but not that.

Re: Britain to introduce compulsory digital ID for workers

#159

Post by tpm »

monerozcash wrote: post #58
viraptor wrote: post #54

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If anything it could help legal immigration. There's a bootstrapping issue where you need a utility bill to open a bank account and a bank account to get paid and get paid to pay the utility bill. And also need all 3 to rent a property to live in. You can choose the right providers to work around that with just your passport, but that involves a bit of work and research. No idea how that would solve anything illegal…

Presumably most legal immigrants already have bank accounts overseas and do not suffer from this bootstrapping issue.

Long time ago when I came to the UK I had that exact problem, there was only one bank (HSBC I think) that agreed to open an account for based on passport only. Even though I'm an EU citizen and UK was part of the EU at that time. Otherwise I would be stuck, because my employer (no employer I know of) would send my wage overseas.

Re: Britain to introduce compulsory digital ID for workers

#160

Post by AlecSchueler »

remarkEon wrote: post #21

>The proposals are the government's latest bid to tackle illegal immigration, with the new ID being a form of proof of a citizen's right to live and work in the UK. How does a digital ID solve an illegal immigration problem? I watched the video and the suggestion is that this makes it easier for employers to verify that someone is authorized to work. Is that actually true? I don't live in the UK and have not visited…

> How does a digital ID solve an illegal immigration problem?

Remember that the "problem" is that it can be used as a political tool by outside parties like Reform. It helps this problem by allowing the Prime Minister and others to appear on TV pointing to strong measures they're implementing. The efficacy of the measures is beyond the attention span of someone watching the headlines.

Post reply on HN