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The share of Americans having regular sex keeps dropping

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Re: The share of Americans having regular sex keeps dropping

#161
post #5

The article mostly blames pornography and digital addiction, but I think those are symptoms of a larger problem, which is lack of belonging and community. If life sucks, you have few friends you can afford the time or money to see, and you work to make other people rich until you are exhausted, when do you have time and energy to maintain a relationship? If you feel like the world is on fire, it's hard to get in the…

> Also Americans: Abstinence only! You'll get pregnant! No abortions! STDs will kill you! Men deserve sex! We're not going to teach you how your body works!

I don't know what time machine you arrive on, but no one has been seriously promoting abstinence for decades, except in certain religious circles, and that's where people are having the most sex and the best sex. That's not a coincidence. They more like to be engaging in it the only healthy way it can be: an expression of mutual self-giving and love, and an act of bonding that reinforces the relationship that's already there. Intrinsically entailed is its openness to new life, as that is its ultimate consummation and raison d'etre. Block that and you corrupt the act. Reap the consequences.

> Of course we end up with declining sex, in a country so obsessed with individualism and sex-adverse.

Sex averse? You must be joking. We're sex-obsessed! Creepiness has been normalized. You can't watch a movie for 5 minutes without having your face rubbed in a sex scene, or a newspaper with the latest sexual fetish looking to receive society's blessing instead of its condemnation and scorn. Advertising is heavily sexualized, contributing to the commercializing of sex. Dating culture, rather that being about courtship and getting to know someone to find a spouse, is and has been for some time some kind of dystopian and aimless sex ritual. What a mind job!

And porn use? Yeah, it is a problem and a major contributor to various disorders and insecurities. The vast majority of males (especially Gen Z) are regular consumers of pornography, which has never been so ubiquitous and easily available - you're just a typo away from accidentally tripping over a porn site. Record numbers of women are dabbling in OF-style sex work. In the case of Gen Z and Gen Alpha, they practically grew up on the stuff. Pornography is also shaping sexual norms that are disturbing. For instance, there has been a rise in the frequency at which women are choked during sex. That comes from pornography, which has been only deepening mistrust, misunderstanding, disrespect, and animosity between the sexes. The crippling effect pornography has on the ability to form and have a healthy relationship cannot be understated.

The very fact that we're even talking about people not having sex as the problem is already a sign that we have a deranged relationship with sex. It's not about sex as if it were some decontextualized recreational activity that is failing to hit quotas. It has a place, and outside of its legitimate narrow confines, it becomes an act of violence, an instrument of power, and an act of exploitation and abuse. The social fallout is incalculable. Consent doesn't wave that away.

> The kids in my community are being taught age-appropriate, consent-based sex ed, and the availability of free, high-quality sex ed is improving.

Sex ed has been around for a long time, and one of its common faults is that it decontextualizes sex, and second, doesn't and can't give you "just the facts", but actively promotes and shapes unhealthy attitudes toward what is acceptable sexual behavior. Sexual ethics is reduced to mere consent, at best. To say the problem is that we don't have enough sex ed is like saying communism failed because it didn't communism hard enough.

Sex is not a toy. It's a powerful and sacred act. FAFO. That we are not horrified by the state of sexual relations and sexual disorder is a testament to the numbing effect our disorder has. For centuries, it was known to great moral teachers that one of the "daughters of lust" (where lust is not healthy sexual desire, but one not proportioned by reason) is a darkening of the mind.

So, yes, community is important, but it needs a basis, and a deep one, but the point of a community is not to supply you with sexual experiences. If your community begins operating like some kind of sex market, it will dissolve and right so, because it will have become a seedy hive of sexual perversion, coercion, and unhealthy relations.

The sexual relationship is the glue of family and through that of society. Mess with it, and prepare for hell.

Re: The share of Americans having regular sex keeps dropping

#162

Article is written by a conservative think tank pushing traditional family values. The statistics might or might not be valid but I wouldn't take their word for it.

So if even those curmudgeons say sex is declining, there must be something to it.

Re: The share of Americans having regular sex keeps dropping

#163
post #5

The article mostly blames pornography and digital addiction, but I think those are symptoms of a larger problem, which is lack of belonging and community. If life sucks, you have few friends you can afford the time or money to see, and you work to make other people rich until you are exhausted, when do you have time and energy to maintain a relationship? If you feel like the world is on fire, it's hard to get in the…

Quite interesting because in my trans and poly community I have found belonging, friendship, cuddles, alcohol free spaces, and lots of very exciting and interesting consensual safer sex. I’m having (by far) the best sex of my life after being active for 20+ years. It turns out that dancing in the forest on LSD is way more fun and exciting than chugging another beer on my couch (which is exactly how I spent my 20’s).…

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Re: The share of Americans having regular sex keeps dropping

#164

This is very much upstream of sex. I just started a masters program this week, and on Friday night at 8 pm, zero out of 52 of my cohort members wanted to join me for a beer. It's anecdotal, but seemed really remarkable to me. So it's not just sex, young people don't socialize in-person nearly as much as they used to. I have no idea how this will be addressed, if it does ever get addressed.

Is it a lack of interest, or are they being priced out? When I was in university around 2010, you could do a very decent night out for 20€, and crash in your mate's student room, for which they paid 250€ per month. You'd meet friends, friends of friends, and your social circle would just expand. Now the rent tripled, 20€ gets you a beer and a bus ride, and people stay home with the same few friends, if they're bother…

I recently visited my alma mater. There is a restaurant/bar right in the middle of campus, which in my time was always an extremely crowded social spot. In addition to the convenient location, meals at the restaurant are covered by the university meal plan, so it's a great way to get some variety from cafeteria food at no added cost. Plenty of students in my time hung out there despite not drinking. When I visited, the place was dead - I and a fellow alumni I was meeting were the only two non-employees there. This was during typical dinner rush hours. There were quite a few door-dashers picking up food, but no one actually coming in to partake in either the bar or the food. During the same trip, I went to quite a few bars and restaurants in the area around the campus which were all packed, but I didn't see anyone college aged at any of them. None of these places were expensive, either when I was in undergrad or now.

Obviously this is one anecdote, but it seems the kids these days just don't like going out to bars and restaurants. I can't imagine 20 somethings have stopped liking food, so it seems the atmosphere is more likely the issue.

Re: The share of Americans having regular sex keeps dropping

#165

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The timeline does not match. Both were widely available in oughts. So there was something smooth that hit a phase transition. Likely enployment or housing prices, forcing people to engage survival mode. People in this mode do not feel secure enough to have sex or especially start families.

The first smartphone — iphone — came out in 2007? Adoption definitely started ramping up in 2010. Video games were available pre-2010, but they weren’t nearly as ubiquitous, and honestly the people playing lots of video games pre-2010 weren’t having lots of sex either.

Video games have been responsible since their inception for everything the bigots don't like. That doesn’t make it true.

Re: The share of Americans having regular sex keeps dropping

#167
post #123

Earlier quoted context omitted.

it's for attractive people. for the rest of us it's a quick trip to HR.

You meet people at work, you don't proposition them at work.

I don't think your distinction matters at all.

If you're attractive and your advances are well recieved, you will not get reported to HR. Vice versa.

Re: The share of Americans having regular sex keeps dropping

#168
post #9

Is this really all that surprising? We have a ton of things ongoing now that we either know or suspect are big contributors to this: - the whole male loneliness epidemic - a longstanding loss of community and social organizations around the country - a pretty terrible job market for many Americans - plenty of things to be stressed or worried about. Geopolitical instability. Erosion of individual rights. The complete…

The Bowling Alone book captured this. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bowling_Alone? Personally, I subscribe to the idea the underlying cause is the loss of trust in American institutions (government, church, corporations, sports, unions etc.)

       - Decline in trust undermines institutions, and the loss of institutions further reduces trust.
       - Rising inequality, political polarization, and lack of fairness & opportunity further reduce trust.
       - This results in withdrawal from in-person activities and the substitution of online "life".

Re: The share of Americans having regular sex keeps dropping

#169
post #164

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Is it a lack of interest, or are they being priced out? When I was in university around 2010, you could do a very decent night out for 20€, and crash in your mate's student room, for which they paid 250€ per month. You'd meet friends, friends of friends, and your social circle would just expand. Now the rent tripled, 20€ gets you a beer and a bus ride, and people stay home with the same few friends, if they're bother…

I recently visited my alma mater. There is a restaurant/bar right in the middle of campus, which in my time was always an extremely crowded social spot. In addition to the convenient location, meals at the restaurant are covered by the university meal plan, so it's a great way to get some variety from cafeteria food at no added cost. Plenty of students in my time hung out there despite not drinking. When I visited, t…

What are they going to get out of it? Everywhere you go on most campuses you're hammered with title IX messaging about how interacting with women in anything other than a cold professional way (which rarely results in sex, women don't want that) is harassment and can ruin your life. The only thing left then is getting drunk which is also a good way to ruin your life.

Why would they go?

Re: The share of Americans having regular sex keeps dropping

#170

Article is written by a conservative think tank pushing traditional family values. The statistics might or might not be valid but I wouldn't take their word for it.

The underlying study is the General Social Survey (GSS) out of NORC/University of Chicago, a dependable source for these types of data since the 1970’s. I can’t speak for the IFS, but yours seems to be a classic case of discounting the message because you don’t like the messenger.

Social science studies are notoriously difficult and often contradictory even when the authors are honest and doing their best.

What other studies have been done on this subject, and did they reach similar conclusions? What evidence out there contradicts this study, and why should we give more weight to this evidence? "Pick the study that reinforces the point you are trying to make" is a classic.

From years of reading Scott Alexander I've become attuned to the difference between 1) someone trying to convince me of something or 2) someone trying to discover the truth. The tone of this article fits clearly into category #1. That doesn't mean it isn't true, but it should not be accepted at face value.

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