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Hyundai wants loniq 5 customers to pay for cybersecurity patch in baffling move

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Re: Hyundai wants loniq 5 customers to pay for cybersecurity patch in baffling move

#161
post #122

Hmmm, so recently: ̶ ̶H̶y̶u̶n̶d̶a̶i̶ ̶K̶i̶a̶ ̶V̶o̶l̶k̶s̶w̶a̶g̶e̶n̶ ̶ At this rate, I'll be back to Tesla for any future EV purchase. (Noting that Tesla second-hand prices in Europe seem to have taken a dive over the past while, presumably partly thanks to Elon's shenanighans?)

Rather because some people parked their Teslas on public roads and later found them vandalized.

Re: Hyundai wants loniq 5 customers to pay for cybersecurity patch in baffling move

#162
post #135

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm not so sure, I thought "patch" originated from hole punching cards to program stuff. A software patch was literally a patch of tape that hides an errorneously punched hole in such a card. The term patch-cable seems to be way younger.

https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/patchboard patchboard : a switchboard in which circuits are interconnected by patch cords First Known Use 1934, in the meaning defined above

Hence patch cable.

Re: Hyundai wants loniq 5 customers to pay for cybersecurity patch in baffling move

#163
This is a violation of UN regulation 155/156 where the vendor must provide free fixes and updates in case of safety or cybersecurity violations.

I'm mentioning this specifically because the CAN bus is involved, which is mandatory to be safety conform and has to be ASIL-C/D conform. If you cannot guarantee that, you will lose the license.

Without conformance to UN Regulation 155/156, the car manufacturer might lose its license for the underlying car platform (not only the downstreamed models), meaning refunding/damages need to be paid for all buyers of cars of that platform.

So chances are this can be fought in court, and Hyundai probably has to offer free replacement of that defective part.

Re: Hyundai wants loniq 5 customers to pay for cybersecurity patch in baffling move

#164
post #135

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm not so sure, I thought "patch" originated from hole punching cards to program stuff. A software patch was literally a patch of tape that hides an errorneously punched hole in such a card. The term patch-cable seems to be way younger.

https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/patchboard patchboard : a switchboard in which circuits are interconnected by patch cords First Known Use 1934, in the meaning defined above

I find it far more likely that patches--in terms of fixing problems with small, targeted changes--derives from the use of the term for fixing holes in cloth by sewing on another piece of cloth.

Re: Hyundai wants loniq 5 customers to pay for cybersecurity patch in baffling move

#165
post #147
post #116

I don't get why companies don't understand how offensive it is to the customer to nickel and dime them, especially after they're already a converted customer. They could easily eat the $60 cost and spin it as positive PR, Apple-style. It's particularly bad because customers see it as a defect. No one wants to pay full price for defective equipment. The only thing that would make it worse is if this "hack" were reprod…

There are two aspects. "Charge" and "costs/who pays". When someone can start a Kia with a USB cable, the owner pays for that. Kia may have a fee for replacing something, but that doesn't factor in the calculus of "there's a reason these people are buying our product, and we assess they will continue to do so." Note that Kia offered a maximum of $6,125/$3,375 for totaled/damaged vehicles. The previous formula: "You ta…

There is also this thing called brand loyalty. After the car manufacturer pulls a stunt like that I will think twice before I buy my next car from them.

Re: Hyundai wants loniq 5 customers to pay for cybersecurity patch in baffling move

#166

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Have you seen Telo? https://www.telotrucks.com/

I've seen this before, and I like the design. It's cute yet functional. It would fit in well on European roads. One thing that stands out to me is the front wheels protrude beyond the body. I don't recall ever seeing that on a consumer road vehicle before, at least one designed after the 1930s.

Yeah, I'd think open-wheel cars are not road legal in the US but I just checked. Apparently it varies by state. Adding fenders seems simple enough at least. Aging Wheels did a video about the Telo and one thing that stood out to me was that they seemed intent on scaling slowly.

Re: Hyundai wants loniq 5 customers to pay for cybersecurity patch in baffling move

#167

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Even in McDonalds if what they give you is defective they will replace it without question once you bring it to their attention. If it turned out the door locks on the car were defective you'd expect them to be replaced under warranty. If the warranty had expired the situation would, admittedly, be a bit murkier - but you could still make a case that since the locks had always been faulty they'd be the manufacturer's…

> if what they give you is defective they will replace it without question once you bring it to their attention Go there and request a rare steak or idk steak with kimchi, let is know how it goes! This is a Korean car and probably secure enough in korea where you usually don't lock your bike and/or house. If it not secure if you park it on the street in SF/London/Magadan/Capetown/Kabul are you sure they owe you a fre…

That's absurd logic as cybersecurity applies everywhere.

Also, they need to secure it the international markets they're selling it in.

Re: Hyundai wants loniq 5 customers to pay for cybersecurity patch in baffling move

#168
post #164
post #135

Earlier quoted context omitted.

https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/patchboard patchboard : a switchboard in which circuits are interconnected by patch cords First Known Use 1934, in the meaning defined above

I find it far more likely that patches--in terms of fixing problems with small, targeted changes--derives from the use of the term for fixing holes in cloth by sewing on another piece of cloth.

Everything is about patching up clothes or other things. I was just commenting on the “patch-cable seems to be way younger” remark.

Re: Hyundai wants loniq 5 customers to pay for cybersecurity patch in baffling move

#169
post #147
post #116

I don't get why companies don't understand how offensive it is to the customer to nickel and dime them, especially after they're already a converted customer. They could easily eat the $60 cost and spin it as positive PR, Apple-style. It's particularly bad because customers see it as a defect. No one wants to pay full price for defective equipment. The only thing that would make it worse is if this "hack" were reprod…

There are two aspects. "Charge" and "costs/who pays". When someone can start a Kia with a USB cable, the owner pays for that. Kia may have a fee for replacing something, but that doesn't factor in the calculus of "there's a reason these people are buying our product, and we assess they will continue to do so." Note that Kia offered a maximum of $6,125/$3,375 for totaled/damaged vehicles. The previous formula: "You ta…

Citation for the final paragraph quote "the previous formula" goes to Fight Club.

Re: Hyundai wants loniq 5 customers to pay for cybersecurity patch in baffling move

#170

I want a dumb EV. No infotainment system. Just speakers and a way to plug my device into them. Anything critical to the car should be completely air gapped and require an absolute minimum amount of software, preferably zero.

That’s illegal in the EU, 911 eCall requires an always-on cellular connection with an attached device that records your location. Would you please think of the children?
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