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U.S. autism data project sparks uproar over ethics, privacy and intent

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Re: U.S. autism data project sparks uproar over ethics, privacy and intent

#161

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Context: Musk: Yeah, [Gad Saad is] awesome, and he talks about, you know, basically suicidal empathy. Like, there's so much empathy that you actually suicide yourself. So, we've got civilizational suicidal empathy going on. And it's like, I believe in empathy, like, I think you should care about other people, but you need to have empathy for, for civilization as a whole, and not commit to a civilizational suicide. Ro…

How does this context somehow exonerate him? It reads like absolute paranoia to me.

>How does this context somehow exonerate him?

You might not agree with his statement even with the full context, but at the very least it's a very different statement than the initial quote of "The fundamental weakness of Western civilization is empathy".

Re: U.S. autism data project sparks uproar over ethics, privacy and intent

#162

One thing this will do is disincentivize high functioning autists from identifying themselves as autists, which is a very good thing IMO. Just look at this channel https://www.youtube.com/@NationalAutisticSoc/videos . There is a lot of survivor-ship bias on this channel towards high functioning autists who can talk in front of a camera. Just to give an idea to those not familiar with the difference between high funct…

Autism is seen as a large and wide spectrum of many different symptoms all called "autism". Using terms like "high functioning autism" is probably not a helpful way to talk about some color on the spectrum, however. Source: I am the parent of a child with autism.

I believe there is a methodology for distinguishing high and low functioning autism. Level 1 is high functioning. Level 3 is most severe.

Re: U.S. autism data project sparks uproar over ethics, privacy and intent

#163

One thing this will do is disincentivize high functioning autists from identifying themselves as autists, which is a very good thing IMO. Just look at this channel https://www.youtube.com/@NationalAutisticSoc/videos . There is a lot of survivor-ship bias on this channel towards high functioning autists who can talk in front of a camera. Just to give an idea to those not familiar with the difference between high funct…

"Actually, it's good they're registering every autistic persons in the country in a national database, under a president who is overtly eugenicist [1]." No it's not. At minimum this is a horrible invasion of privacy, that I can't believe anyone on HN would defend. At worst this is straight Nazi shit, preparing the ground for extermination. [1] https://time.com/7002003/donald-trump-disabled-americans-all...

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Re: U.S. autism data project sparks uproar over ethics, privacy and intent

#164
post #87

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What makes you think this isn't it? I know that the primary reason for his fixation with autism is to attack vaccines. But have you listened to him talk about autistic people? It's pretty clear that he considers autistic individuals as unproductive (the tax remark) burden who destroys families. It's very clear that he considers them as subhuman. Sounds very close to 'life unworthy of life' argument made by the Nazis.…

Hasn’t RFK Jr spent his entire life trying to find the cause and cure for autism? My life is pretty close to this community and I can verify that all of his comments are 100% accurate. Parents who insist on traveling separately as a safeguard to ensure one of them is able to care for their adult child in the event of an accident, living with the knowledge that both of them passing away will mean the child moves to a…

> Hasn’t RFK Jr spent his entire life trying to find the cause and cure for autism?

Has he? That 'cure' part makes it pretty clear what his background with autism is. He has no clue about it. It's certainly not a disease nor a brain injury that can be cured. And it's too complex to be caused by something like a vaccine. All I see is that he has a particular disdain for autistic people and he wants to use autism to target something else - perhaps vaccines.

> My life is pretty close to this community

Do you have an academic or professional background on the condition? Or are you someone with autism? If so, you may claim some credibility. There are even associations of parents of autistic kids who spout pseudo-scientific nonsense about autism. And they routinely get fact-checked and opposed by associations of autistic people themselves.

> I can verify that all of his comments are 100% accurate.

CDC falls under HHS, right? They published the results about a week ago and it clearly said that the higher incidence of autism is due to improved diagnosis. And then he went on to trash those findings publicly. Why should I believe a career politician over a whole bunch of career medical professionals on this? Considering his past and political stance as well, he has exactly zero credibility on this matter.

> Parents who insist on traveling separately as a safeguard to ensure one of them is able to care for their adult child in the event of an accident, living with the knowledge that both of them passing away will mean the child moves to a group home most likely.

Am I to assume that you're a parent of an autistic kid? If so, let me warn you now. You're doing something more harmful to your kid than what you described. And one more thing. Your view of autism is still very narrow. What you're describing is level 3 autism at best. Some symptoms don't even sound like autism, and could be some other condition. You should perhaps check with a specialist or a level 1 autistic to learn what autism really is and what it feels like (higher level kids often find it hard to communicate their feelings).

> Some who call CPS because they can’t handle the danger that their child poses to their other children.

Very much on point with what I said above. Harmful and hurtful behavior is not an autistic symptom. That sounds more like a cluster-B personality disorder. Not that they can't coexist, but this is a very harmful stereotype. But I'm not surprised.

> These are just a few of the issues before getting into “the autism diet” and chronic digestive issues.

Autism is a neuro-developmental condition. Autistic brains are wired differently, if you will. There are many environmental factors that influence autistic people's behavior - albeit temporarily. Food is one of the less important ones among them. And if you think it is a cure, you are in for big disappointment.

> RFK Jr is giving a voice to parents who are scared, confused and fully aware that nobody is listening to them.

Instead of a politician vying for attention, you should try to understand your kid first. If they have difficulty expressing it, try to talk to a specialist or someone with more verbal autism. They are very common - that's why the 1 in 31 statistics. Then you may get some idea about what to really focus on.

> If you had any idea the number of parents who are afraid to tell you when the symptoms started because they know you don’t want to believe them, it would shock you.

I have investigated various matters throughout my career. That statement has all the symptoms of confirmation bias. The way to get an unbiased result is to do a large-scale, randomized (double-)blind study. You need quantified data, not emotional anecdotes. And if you have something specific in mind and the quantified info to back it up, then we can discuss. Otherwise, those assertions are moot. And for that matter, do you know that these symptoms are extremely hard to identify in infants? The timing of recognition of those symptoms is a rather unreliable indicator for anything.

And remember what I said before - a lot of autistic parents' associations are in the business of spreading misinformation. They're widely opposed and debunked by associations of autistic people themselves.

> If you want to know what most people in the community believe is the root cause, it’s aluminum.

Let me guess. The adjuvant in vaccines? I know where that comes from. If you fancy your own research, try searching up the research papers on that topic. Pay special attention to the authors and the citations. Then check the affiliations of those authors, including funding sources. That will tell you a very enlightening story. To summarize the technical argument, the aluminum used in vaccines don't reach neurotoxic levels even for infants.

> His desire to help people is genuine and not something in question.

His actions at the HHS indicate otherwise. I would rather trust the qualified career medical professionals and researchers he fired. And let's not forget the disastrous way in which he's handling the measles outbreak. I can see how you're emotionally invested in this matter. But please don't assume that the people on the other side aren't.

Re: U.S. autism data project sparks uproar over ethics, privacy and intent

#165

One thing this will do is disincentivize high functioning autists from identifying themselves as autists, which is a very good thing IMO. Just look at this channel https://www.youtube.com/@NationalAutisticSoc/videos . There is a lot of survivor-ship bias on this channel towards high functioning autists who can talk in front of a camera. Just to give an idea to those not familiar with the difference between high funct…

"high" or "low" functioning is not a constant. I'm autistic and I've been low functioning and high functioning. I can hold a job and had a wife at one point. But sometimes circumstances in my life change my ability to function. Sometimes I will go periods where I can't speak, and this caused me to almost lose my job... but for the fact they knew I was autistic and had compassion for me.

I understand that sometimes people want high needs autistic people to be the only ones who are visible, because it perpetuates the (false) narratives people have about autistic people -- that we can't function in society, we are essentially children, we need to be "cured" to "save the children", but people need to realize this is a) a spectrum and b) your place within the spectrum is always in flux. Low functioning autistic people can become more high functioning with support, and high functioning autistic people who are abused can become low functioning very quickly.

Re: U.S. autism data project sparks uproar over ethics, privacy and intent

#166

[flagged]

> ICE is gearing up to be the Gestapo. It should be noted that the Nazis took a lot of US policies from 1920/30s and ran with them just a little bit further. The Nazis were famous for eugenics, but it was quite big in the US as well, see for example: * https://www.npr.org/sections/health-shots/2016/03/07/4694780... * https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Buck_v._Bell Their initial treatment/segregation of the Jews wasn't muc…

Sorry, why should it be noted? What is the relevance of your comment other than whataboutism?

Re: U.S. autism data project sparks uproar over ethics, privacy and intent

#167
post #72

Earlier quoted context omitted.

1. Join up on your local 50501 protest, next one is on May 1: https://www.fiftyfifty.one/events 2. Continue speaking loudly about the various criminal acts of this administration and continue reinforcing the importance of not tuning it out 3. Find promising candidates and fund their run in 2026 to flip the house and strangle the administration with impeachments over their long list of violations of the Constitution 4…

#1: Not available in New York - if you're in the wrong red county, trying to apply for a semi-automatic rifle permit means having to argue with the GOP about your "good moral character" and have your permit get denied. This also assumes your county will process your application in a timely manner - mine's a nearly 11-12 month wait to process. Even hardcore red areas are becoming a nightmare to gain access to 2A right…

Obviously, locality matters - but in most of the country you can walk into a gun show, hand a random guy a fist full of cash, and walk out with a firearm.

Re: U.S. autism data project sparks uproar over ethics, privacy and intent

#168

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why do you consider that a good thing?

[flagged]

How does high functioning autistic people speaking up for the autistic community "pollute" the conversation?

First of all, the reason this registry isn't going through is because autistic people who are functioning enough to speak out did so in solidarity with the entire autistic community. So far from polluting anything we are advocating for ourselves and our peers.

Secondly, this "high functioning low functioning" dichotomy is wrong so your framing it as a "us vs them" situation is off. It's a spectrum not a binary.

Third, presumably if they can't speak for themselves, and "high functioning" autistic people are discouraged, then the only people speaking for them are allistic people speaking about what's best for autistic people. When that happens, you get bone-headed characterizations like autistic people "never pay taxes, they'll never hold a job, they'll never play baseball, they'll never write a poem, they'll never go out on a date. Many of them will never use a toilet unassisted." and suggestions of registries, wellness farms, and soon enough genetic cleansings.

Finally, it's autistic acceptance and awareness month, and the autistic community has been under attack for a week. You're spending your Sunday calling autistic people "selfish" and characterizing their input as "pollution". Have some compassion please.

Re: U.S. autism data project sparks uproar over ethics, privacy and intent

#169

One thing this will do is disincentivize high functioning autists from identifying themselves as autists, which is a very good thing IMO. Just look at this channel https://www.youtube.com/@NationalAutisticSoc/videos . There is a lot of survivor-ship bias on this channel towards high functioning autists who can talk in front of a camera. Just to give an idea to those not familiar with the difference between high funct…

This will unpopular, but I would recommend that anyone who can manage it to avoid any sort of formal psychological diagnosis. Unless you strictly need it for medication, it is always something which could potentially drag you down. Anyone can use the DSM (alongside an actual doctor) to get something of an "informal diagnosis" which will help them understand themselves better and to work with a doctor to form coping s…

Autism, high functioning or not, rarely comes on its own. It often has comorbidities like PTSD, depression, anxiety disorder and ADHD. Many of these extra disorders, like the former 3 in my list happens due to how autistic people interact with the general society. Bullying, abuse, SA, etc are reported at higher than average rates by autistic people. A diagnosis often helps to deal with them and plan for the future. In addition, medication is used for these conditions. Autism doesn't really have a treatment as far as I know (could use a fact check). There are some therapies available, but they have limited effects.

Another matter is that 'high functioning autism' doesn't mean freedom from hardships. They learn and work differently and don't fit well in regular classrooms. If you search online, you'll find several hilarious accounts of puzzled and perplexed autistic students in their classrooms. Despite being 'high functioning', they really could use accommodations. This is true at home too. If you leave them alone, many would simply starve to death without even ordering food online. Another matter is 'masking' - something high functioning autistic people do in public. It makes them more approachable to others. But it also creates enormous cognitive loads that can later develop into other disorders. Diagnosis really helps in these cases.

Re: U.S. autism data project sparks uproar over ethics, privacy and intent

#170
post #160

Earlier quoted context omitted.

To me, “suicidal empathy“ (if that exists) is a lack of empathy (for self) — not “too much of it“. It’s not zero sum. You could go as far as to say that empathy only occurs in moments where there is no me or other, just an “us“. Which includes me. His statements and behavior make me question whether he really experiences empathy or whether he lost that too early in his life to consciously remember.

>To me, “suicidal empathy“ (if that exists) is a lack of empathy (for self) — not “too much of it“. It’s not zero sum. "Empathy" in the form of thoughts and prayers might not be zero sum, but that's probably not the "empathy" that Musk is talking about. He's probably about government spending on refugees or foreign aid, which is zero sum.

Like l said, I doubt he experientially knows what he’s talking about. Or he means what he says and expresses the desire to paint empathy in a bad light and by that continue to dehumanize the other to justify violence.

Interesting that you talk about “thoughts and prayers“. I am talking about feelings, the foundation of empathy.

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