Obesity and Fitness Are Revolutionized By Reddit, Not Doctors • Hacker News Board

Re: Obesity and Fitness Are Revolutionized By Reddit, Not Doctors

#161

Post by kanzure » Sun, Aug 12, 2012, 4:21 PM UTC

jacques_chester wrote: post #86

mamoswined wrote: post #67

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yeah, lots of broscience there. There are other communities where people actually are looking at the scientific literature and testing hypotheses on themselves. I think the fitness stack exchange is closer to that. That was my methodology for fixing my condition that I was told was incurable. I looked at pubmed for any study at all on the condition, even animal studies. And if there was anything promising that was no…

Have you actually looked at fittit? A lot of the most vocal and active contributors and moderators are credentialled to hell and back. Silverhydra, for example, is considered a minor deity thereabouts. He's a registered dietitian, an amateur bodybuilder and is the co-founder of examine.com, for which he reads literally dozens of studies per month .

> He's a registered dietitian, an amateur bodybuilder and is the co-founder of examine.com, for which he reads literally dozens of studies per month.

I am not amused by this. So he reads a dozen papers per month? That's not good... that's just terrible. Is there anyone that reads a more healthy amount?

Re: Obesity and Fitness Are Revolutionized By Reddit, Not Doctors

#162

Post by kanzure » Sun, Aug 12, 2012, 4:26 PM UTC

glenra wrote: post #139

Xodarap wrote: post #134

It's remarkable to me that hackers are against every form of alternative medicine, except regarding nutrition. If I told you that the American Cancer Society said wearing pendants to protect from electromagnetic radiation was hokum, it would be case closed. But when the ADA says [low carb diets are nonsense]( http://www.eatright.org/Public/content.aspx?id=10645#.UCemyU... ) it's contentious. I wonder why?

Hackers are in favor of following methods that are testable and that work . When it comes to fighting obesity, the medical establishment is obviously clueless - they don't have any advice to give that has a track record of long-term success. It's not clear why their advice doesn't work, but it's clear that it doesn't. Which leaves room for alternative theories that at least might work. I also think you're overestimat…

> There is quite a lot of bad science in the medical field generally. If we were legally allowed to build our own medical devices and mix our own drugs and practice medicine ourselves, I suspect a lot of us would be inclined to do that.

Well, and if you're not allowed to, some people just do it anyway.

http://groups.google.com/group/diybio

http://diyhpl.us/wiki/diybio/faq

Re: Obesity and Fitness Are Revolutionized By Reddit, Not Doctors

#163

Post by backprojection » Sun, Aug 12, 2012, 4:28 PM UTC

raverbashing wrote: post #109

fingerprinter wrote: post #38

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No way. Try getting fat eating just protein. It is so incredibly hard. Just try it. Now, try getting fat eating nothing but fat+protein. Hard, but much easier than just protein. Now, try getting fat eating just carbs. Easy. Now, try getting fat eating carbs+anything. Easy. A "calorie is a calorie" isn't true now and never has been. It was a very simple model. Our understanding has changed and we now know much more. F…

Yes, it is hard gaining weight only on protein Because protein gives a very strong fullness sensation So you end up eating less calories overall than with a mixed protein/carb (and fats) meal And a calorie is a calorie with a big if: if your macro nutrients are in range

> And a calorie is a calorie with a big if: if your macro nutrients are in range

The statement, 'a calorie is a calorie' is used to make the point that macro ratios don't matter for weight loss/maintenance. ... so then the argument is won, and we can all agree that a calorie is not a calorie.

Re: Obesity and Fitness Are Revolutionized By Reddit, Not Doctors

#164

Post by alex_c » Sun, Aug 12, 2012, 5:04 PM UTC

vacri wrote: post #93

alex_c wrote: post #58

Earlier quoted context omitted.

For specialists, sure. But for a GP shouldn't it be essential to be knowledgeable and effective about basic fitness and nutrition? My (relatively uninformed) impression is that studies of fitness and nutrition are surprisingly unsophisticated relative to research for curing specific diseases. This is basically the debate of preventive care vs. palliative care (and, I guess, the argument that one allows for much highe…

Western medicine has historically never been focused on preventative medicine; their role has traditionally been to make you healthy, not keep you healthy. It's not the conspiracy some might suggest, it's just that historically you called a doctor when you were ill, not for lifestyle advice. When it comes to fitness, you still don't - unless you're talking to a sports doctor, you're not going to get a useful training…

Great comment, and I agree with you on all counts. I believe western medicine should put more emphasis on preventive care and GPs, as most people's first and sometimes only point of contact for health-related matters, should be much more informed and proactive about their patients' fitness and nutrition.

Regarding diet being a rapidly moving target, that is exactly my point. It seems to me, as an uninformed layman, incredible how much we've learned about diseases like cancer and yet how relatively little we seem to know about diet, fitness, and the behavioural research related to them. Not because these topics are in any way more simple than understanding a specific disease, but because they affect everybody.

Re: Obesity and Fitness Are Revolutionized By Reddit, Not Doctors

#165

Post by ryanmerket » Sun, Aug 12, 2012, 5:23 PM UTC

_delirium wrote: post #130

fingerprinter wrote: post #38

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No way. Try getting fat eating just protein. It is so incredibly hard. Just try it. Now, try getting fat eating nothing but fat+protein. Hard, but much easier than just protein. Now, try getting fat eating just carbs. Easy. Now, try getting fat eating carbs+anything. Easy. A "calorie is a calorie" isn't true now and never has been. It was a very simple model. Our understanding has changed and we now know much more. F…

> Now, try getting fat eating nothing but fat+protein. Hard, but much easier than just protein. This one isn't hard at all. I unwittingly gained a bunch of weight in one period because I was busy at work and too lazy to make proper food, so I just ate a lot of peanuts as snack food, 'cause I'd heard they're somewhat healthier than other snack foods. Peanuts are basically nothing but protein+fat, but I gained a bunch…

You were probably eating Planters or some other 'big brand.' Most peanut snack foods come loaded with sugar, carbs, and bad oil. http://www.fatsecret.com/calories-nutrition/food/peanuts/car...

Re: Obesity and Fitness Are Revolutionized By Reddit, Not Doctors

#166

Post by izend » Sun, Aug 12, 2012, 5:28 PM UTC

raverbashing wrote: post #109

fingerprinter wrote: post #38

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No way. Try getting fat eating just protein. It is so incredibly hard. Just try it. Now, try getting fat eating nothing but fat+protein. Hard, but much easier than just protein. Now, try getting fat eating just carbs. Easy. Now, try getting fat eating carbs+anything. Easy. A "calorie is a calorie" isn't true now and never has been. It was a very simple model. Our understanding has changed and we now know much more. F…

Yes, it is hard gaining weight only on protein Because protein gives a very strong fullness sensation So you end up eating less calories overall than with a mixed protein/carb (and fats) meal And a calorie is a calorie with a big if: if your macro nutrients are in range

My personal experience is the opposite, I find eating only protein for dinner leaves me without a fullness sensation. Such as Sashimi, I can eat that forever while Sushi (with rice) fills me up.

Re: Obesity and Fitness Are Revolutionized By Reddit, Not Doctors

#167

Post by fluidcruft » Sun, Aug 12, 2012, 5:32 PM UTC

zacharycohn wrote: post #160

vl wrote: post #98

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>Found that men who ran two or more marathons per year were 41 percent less likely to suffer from high blood pressure, 32 percent less likely to have high cholesterol, and 87 percent less likely to be diabetic than non-marathoners. Isn't it obvious selection bias? People with high blood pressure, high cholesterol and with diabets do not run marathones. >Americans are more into protein and more into weightlifting than…

Alternatively looking at the other group: Are you comparing people who exercise to people who don't? If you are, and your conclusion is "aerobic exercise is necessary"... you have a flawed study.

Well, it does seem pretty convincing as support for the conclusion "aerobic exercise is sufficient". If the choice is between sufficient and unproved things, how can you rationalize disregarding sufficiency?

Re: Obesity and Fitness Are Revolutionized By Reddit, Not Doctors

#168

Post by BrandonM » Sun, Aug 12, 2012, 5:34 PM UTC

0xbadcafebee wrote: post #63

Obesity and Fitness are not revolutionized by a forum full of people telling you what worked for them. The revolution comes when people find what works for themselves. So far, it's very far away. News flash: Most people don't go on Reddit. gasp Calm down. I'm sorry I frightened you. But it turns out you don't get a revolution by a small number of people who use a particular forum looking for fitness tips from their f…

This sounds like a pretty good approach. Why must it be "in the future"? Why don't you work on it yourself? This is Hacker News, after all.

Re: Obesity and Fitness Are Revolutionized By Reddit, Not Doctors

#169

Post by _delirium » Sun, Aug 12, 2012, 5:46 PM UTC

ryanmerket wrote: post #165

_delirium wrote: post #130

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Now, try getting fat eating nothing but fat+protein. Hard, but much easier than just protein. This one isn't hard at all. I unwittingly gained a bunch of weight in one period because I was busy at work and too lazy to make proper food, so I just ate a lot of peanuts as snack food, 'cause I'd heard they're somewhat healthier than other snack foods. Peanuts are basically nothing but protein+fat, but I gained a bunch…

You were probably eating Planters or some other 'big brand.' Most peanut snack foods come loaded with sugar, carbs, and bad oil. http://www.fatsecret.com/calories-nutrition/food/peanuts/car...

No sugar/etc., just salted peanuts. Ingredients: peanuts, salt. It's hard to counteract eating thousands of calories of peanuts daily, though (for a while I was going through 2x bags, i.e. 3000 calories/day just from peanuts).

Re: Obesity and Fitness Are Revolutionized By Reddit, Not Doctors

#170

Post by beagle3 » Sun, Aug 12, 2012, 5:53 PM UTC

creamyhorror wrote: post #128

beagle3 wrote: post #101

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Dietary cholesterol - probably not as bad as previously assumed, but having >6 eggs a week actually increases your risk of heart disease/events. Do you have a reference? I've been unable to find one (or for that matter, anyone who's actually seen one). I have found examples to the contrary: e.g. http://www.sherdog.net/forums/f15/88-year-old-man-eats-25-eg... (anecdote aside, it has other references as well)

I went back and read the source paper carefully, and realised this was a mistake on my part. The relevant study: http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/10217054 ---- After adjustment for age, smoking, and other potential CHD risk factors, we found no evidence of an overall significant association between egg consumption and risk of CHD or stroke in either men or women. The relative risks (RRs) of CHD across categories of…

Thanks.

It's amazing how many things we believe (and when I say "we", I mean society, including e.g. doctors whose job it is to know better) that have never been scientifically looked at properly -- or worse, were looked at and shown to be wrong.

My current list:

- dietary cholesterol is bad for you (truth: essentially irrelevant)

- serum cholesterol is bad for you (truth: it's a marker, not a cause. apparently, the body makes more of it in an attempt to solve other problems, which will manifest faster if you use statins to reduce cholesterol)

- dietary sodium is bad for you (truth: blood pressure is tightly regulated, and dietary sodium has very little to do with serum sodium and blood pressure, unless it is in ridiculous excess. Too little sodium is also harmful)

- butter is bad for you. (truth: some is bad, some is good. butter is so ill-defined to make general statements useless. grass-fed organic european style butter is good for you)

- you should avoid introducing allergens such as nuts to young kids, lest they develop allergies. (truth: not clear, but observational evidence show inverse correlation between how early you introduce nuts and the prevalence of nut allergies)

- weight change is equal to c*(calories in - calories out). (truth: only in the tautologically useless sense. generally wrong the way 99% of the people apply it. nutrition science is anything but)

I'm looking for a rigorous study that shows toothpasts are helpful (indeed, that brushing is helpful). Some studies by Weston Price (and his successors) imply that cavities correlate with grain and sugar consumption, and that brushing is not helpful against cavities if the diet is bad.