Live data from Hacker News

Obesity and Fitness Are Revolutionized By Reddit, Not Doctors

greatist.com

91–100 of 207 posts

Re: Obesity and Fitness Are Revolutionized By Reddit, Not Doctors

#91

People always end up believing what they want to believe, even if it's illogical or totally insane. But, no one has ever put on weight on a calorie deficit. NEVER. This being said, you can get overweight or even obese if you eat too much, be it green beans or lard. Similarly, you can lose weight eating "bad" foods, if you maintain a calorie deficit. Obviously, for long term results, it's best to eat good food, exerci…

>But, no one has ever put on weight on a calorie deficit. NEVER.

I want to be a pedant and correct that to "body fat" instead of "weight". A change in diet can stress the body into retaining extra water weight, causing a temporary increase in weight.

Re: Obesity and Fitness Are Revolutionized By Reddit, Not Doctors

#92
post #83
post #72

The key obstacle to weight loss is the same as any form of self-improvement: Motivation. Most people know what they need to do in order to lose weight. They just don't do it because its hard to motivate ourselves to do things we're not used to doing. i.e. It's hard to defy our habits. Healthy people don't defy their habits any more than unhealthy people do. They just have healthy habits. So when you're trying to beco…

Disclosure: I actually never used reddit for fitness advice, but it does look nice enough that I wish it had been around earlier! I used to be unfit, but I got myself sorted out before reddit really came along. To find good advice I had to read a lot of trash along with the good and evaluate everything critically. If you throw enough ideas at the wall eventually some stick. So in that spirit, here are some of the rev…

I dunno on that last point. Yes, silly excuses are bad, but if you are sick (more than just stuffy nose) or injured (more than just a paper cut), I'm pretty sure going to the gym can wind up being destructive. Especially if you pass out.

Re: Obesity and Fitness Are Revolutionized By Reddit, Not Doctors

#93
post #58
post #40

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You don't seem to have any idea about how complex medicine is. You wouldn't say the same thing about a specialist in IT ("This DBA doesn't know enough Java!").

For specialists, sure. But for a GP shouldn't it be essential to be knowledgeable and effective about basic fitness and nutrition? My (relatively uninformed) impression is that studies of fitness and nutrition are surprisingly unsophisticated relative to research for curing specific diseases. This is basically the debate of preventive care vs. palliative care (and, I guess, the argument that one allows for much highe…

Western medicine has historically never been focused on preventative medicine; their role has traditionally been to make you healthy, not keep you healthy. It's not the conspiracy some might suggest, it's just that historically you called a doctor when you were ill, not for lifestyle advice. When it comes to fitness, you still don't - unless you're talking to a sports doctor, you're not going to get a useful training programme tailored for your needs.

Regarding GPs in particular - they aren't really about keeping you trim and terrific. They're about dealing with niggling issues while flagging serious ones for referral to specialists. They do know about basic fitness and diet, but they're not specialists in the area - see sports doctors and dieticians.

Also consider that diet is a rapidly moving target at the moment - there's a lot of contradictory opinion and new info coming out all the time. It's not a GP's role to stay at the bleeding edge of medicine. That's what specialists do, and as the specialists settle on the right thing, it filters down to the non-specialists. You can of course find GPs who take special interests in certain areas, and may get lucky and find one that loves fitness and diet.

Also, 'palliative' doesn't mean 'after injury', it means 'relieve symtoms without attempting a cure', and most doctors would rather cure a problem than use the patient as a cash cow (there's enough work out there, even before you get to the ethical issues). Perhaps a better pair of terms would be preventative/proactive vs reactive care.

Re: Obesity and Fitness Are Revolutionized By Reddit, Not Doctors

#94
post #72

The key obstacle to weight loss is the same as any form of self-improvement: Motivation. Most people know what they need to do in order to lose weight. They just don't do it because its hard to motivate ourselves to do things we're not used to doing. i.e. It's hard to defy our habits. Healthy people don't defy their habits any more than unhealthy people do. They just have healthy habits. So when you're trying to beco…

Motivation is important, but knowledge is important too, and most people only have a general idea what they should do. For example, I've known a number of folks who go to a class for the first time and way way overexert themselves. This is unhealthy, and really destroys motivation to go back in a way a more appropriate level of exercise does not.

Additionally, seeing results is motivating, so I'd argue that to some degree, picking effective routines is going to help long-term success. (You don't have to have the perfectly optimal routine, of course, just a decent one)

Re: Obesity and Fitness Are Revolutionized By Reddit, Not Doctors

#95
What's very inspiring are the body transformations posted by members of forums. Just check out the ridiculous before-and-after shots on the following thread from the SomethingAwful Forums' fitness subforum:

http://forums.somethingawful.com/showthread.php?threadid=333...

Threads like these are what inspire people to radically change their lifestyle, start lifting weights, and stay motivated. They go on to keep fitness logs to keep themselves publicly accountable, and also join Fitocracy and weight/diet-tracker sites. There're also a lot of helpful resource threads on such forums, informing newbies on diet, exercises, supplements, etc.

On the scientific side of things, I've spent the last few weeks reading a range of PubMed(Central) articles and various blogs and forums on fitness and diet. There are many schools of thought, but many are mostly supported by anecdotal evidence and not studies.

What I've found most helpful are scientific studies/articles, e.g.

- Evidence-based resistance training recommendations http://baye.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/09/ebrtr-Fisher1.pdf

- ISSN recommendations for supplementation http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2853497/?tool=pu...

- Protein per day for muscle-building: 1.6 g/kg of bodyweight (not the 1+g/lb that many sites tout) http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2129150/

- Reduce saturated fat intake and replace with polyunsaturated fats, not carbs or monounsaturated fats http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/19211817

Scientific bloggers are also good to read, if they assess studies critically - people like Bill Shrapnel, DH Kiefer, Bryan Chung, Stephan Guyenet, Alan Aragon. Check their blogs out if you aren't already following them.

My current understanding of various controversial topics, based (mostly) on studies:

Calories in, calories out - absolute calories matters, but is mediated by the effect of composition of diet. Consuming more protein tends to result in an increased lean-mass-to-fat ratio (whether due to satiety, hormonal effects, or a combination of the two).

Carbs/sugars/starches - high glycaemic-index carbs are riskier than saturated fats for heart disease. They are also associated with weight gain. The endless intake of rice in Asian countries (like mine) makes many of us fat and at risk of heart disease.

Dietary cholesterol - probably not as bad as previously assumed, but having >6 eggs a week actually increases your risk of heart disease/events.

Intermittent fasting - I haven't seen the scientific evidence for this, though a friend assures me it's out there. All I see is Berkhan's leangains.com and I'm not sure I'm convinced. I searched PubMed for a bit but didn't come across anything.

Diet vs exercise for weight loss - diet is the key to weight loss. Neither cardio (whether HIIT or low-intensity) nor resistance training alone is particularly effective at causing weight loss (claims of raised metabolism notwithstanding); you need a calorie deficit as well.

Training to muscular failure - training to failure actually provides more efficient strength gains.

Genetics and muscle - genes play a major, possibly the largest, role in determining how much muscle mass individuals can gain and how easily they do it. "...it appears that those who are naturally lean and muscular to start with, can gain strength and size to a much greater degree than naturally ‘skinny’ individuals." i.e. ectomorphs won't be exploding with muscle in short order, despite their best efforts.

Re: Obesity and Fitness Are Revolutionized By Reddit, Not Doctors

#96
post #75

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The concept of fitness in the US slants more in that direction. Living in Taiwan, I knew a lot of people interested in controlling their diet but not many who were interesting in building muscle mass. Health magazines weren't full of models showing off muscles, either. For whatever reason, there is a very American tendency to focus on muscles. Men and recently more and more women on TV are muscular. The trend has bee…

OK, sure, there's been a cultural shift towards muscularity as part of the conception of masculinity. But that doesn't change the observed fact that most people aren't doing the hard yards to attain a muscular physique. Because it doesn't happen by accident.

Hell, it's difficult enough to make happen on purpose.

Re: Obesity and Fitness Are Revolutionized By Reddit, Not Doctors

#97
post #83

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Disclosure: I actually never used reddit for fitness advice, but it does look nice enough that I wish it had been around earlier! I used to be unfit, but I got myself sorted out before reddit really came along. To find good advice I had to read a lot of trash along with the good and evaluate everything critically. If you throw enough ideas at the wall eventually some stick. So in that spirit, here are some of the rev…

I dunno on that last point. Yes, silly excuses are bad, but if you are sick (more than just stuffy nose) or injured (more than just a paper cut), I'm pretty sure going to the gym can wind up being destructive. Especially if you pass out.

Most rules tend to break down if you take them to extremes. ;) If I really don't feel capable of working out I don't, but if I just feel really crummy I'll at least try to do a reduced workout. Quite often, once I get into it, I have no trouble finishing.

Re: Obesity and Fitness Are Revolutionized By Reddit, Not Doctors

#98
post #19

From reading the article I get the impression that the author isn't that familiar with the scientific literature at all. The evidence he presents against the usefulness of cardio for weight loss compares a group of weightlifters against a group of runners who ran only 20km per week and they still lost marginally more weight than the weightlifters! Cardio really should be a minimum of an hour per day, at least 5 days…

>Found that men who ran two or more marathons per year were 41 percent less likely to suffer from high blood pressure, 32 percent less likely to have high cholesterol, and 87 percent less likely to be diabetic than non-marathoners.

Isn't it obvious selection bias? People with high blood pressure, high cholesterol and with diabets do not run marathones.

>Americans are more into protein and more into weightlifting than any other nation I've ever seen.

Same is true for refined sugars and completely unhealthy standart eating choices. If you walk into non high-end supermarket a-la Whole Foods or PPC it's just hard, and in some categories impossible, to buy healthy food.

Re: Obesity and Fitness Are Revolutionized By Reddit, Not Doctors

#99
post #72

The key obstacle to weight loss is the same as any form of self-improvement: Motivation. Most people know what they need to do in order to lose weight. They just don't do it because its hard to motivate ourselves to do things we're not used to doing. i.e. It's hard to defy our habits. Healthy people don't defy their habits any more than unhealthy people do. They just have healthy habits. So when you're trying to beco…

Couldn't disagree more. Motivation implies some sort of personal failing or personal weakness, which leads me to believe that you buy into the"eat less, exercise more" mantra. I would just like to point out a few things. You state that "most people know what they need to do in order to lose weight" as if there is some cut and dry method to getting thin. Well, I suppose starvation diets ARE that easy, but nobody stick…

Yes, I buy into the "eat less, move more" idea. But then, I'm a physicist and I believe in the laws of thermodynamics.

I am in complete agreement with you that starvation diets, fad diets, and other cook-book regimens are likely to result in failure. The point I was trying to convey was that this failure comes from the fact that it takes willpower to follow these, while you're much more likely to succeed if you try to form habits that don't require willpower to follow. I was borderline obese once myself, but I never followed any specific diets or regimens. I just learned healthy habits.

Exercise is absolutely crucial for good health. Just being skinny doesn't necessarily make you healthy. Perhaps there was less focus on exercise in the past because people were, on average, much more active in their daily jobs. Today, paper-pushers really need to exercise to be healthy.

Re: Obesity and Fitness Are Revolutionized By Reddit, Not Doctors

#100
"When it comes to weight loss, creating a caloric deficit is the most important thing that matters; eating less, not moving more, is the most realistic way to do so."

What? Please read Gary Taubes "Good Calories, Bad Calories" or "Why we get fat". He is one of the leading thinkers in nutrition and is worshipped by other gurus like Tim Noakes (who wrote the runners bible Lore of Running). Taubes spends the first third of "Why we get fat" rebuking this "first law of thermodynamics" approach to dieting.

I'd also argue that nutrition today is evolving from an anecdotal approach to what works e.g. Dr Atkins discovering that if he eats meat-only he gets thin, to a science based approach where we are beginning to understand the profound effect insulin has on fat storage and why dietary fat does not make you fat.

Reddit is a great resource for new data, but not a source. It does however have some amazing pointers. Another case in point is the cult of Mark Rippetoe fans on Reddit and the AMA that Rip did on Reddit a while ago which was awesome. [Rippetoe is pretty much God in strength training circles and his book "Starting Strength" is the strength training bible.]

Post reply on HN