I've had this described to me as basically the combination of neuro+psychological effects of hyperventilation (respiratory alkalosis) in a peaceful/positive environment (as opposed to anxiety-attack-driven or etc.), plus the meditative effects of deep breathing, plus the meditative/brain-entrainment effects of rhythmic movement of a major central/core muscle (diaphragm). Together, those often cause euphoria, altered…
Decreased CO2 during breathwork: emergence of altered states of consciousness
161–170 of 173 posts
Re: Decreased CO2 during breathwork: emergence of altered states of consciousness
#162Earlier quoted context omitted.
Our current understanding is that no amount of CO2 is dangerous as long as everything else is fine, but in reality CO2 acts like the canary in the coal mine. When it climbs, it shows accumulation of stuff you don't want to deal with. Measurement of compounds is best done using a monitor like Aranet, but incidental bumps in different values don't mean much. Long trends matter. If Radon is an issue in your region, a de…
You say, "Our current understanding is that no amount of CO2 is dangerous as long as everything else is fine," but I don't think that is correct. Like any other non-oxygen gas, carbon dioxide is an asphyxiant, and it is routinely used as such to kill rats, but it has significant toxicity even at much lower levels. NIOSH says: > Signs of intoxication have been produced by a 30-minute exposure at 50,000 ppm [Aero 1953]…
A crucial difference to CO is that CO2 doesn't cause permanent damage as long as oxygen supply is restored in time. Compared to that, hemoglobine touched by CO becomes essentially useless for the body since CO has a similarly high binding affinity to hemoglobin as oxygen. Recovering from that pretty much requires replacing the affected red blood cells.
Re: Decreased CO2 during breathwork: emergence of altered states of consciousness
#163Earlier quoted context omitted.
You say, "Our current understanding is that no amount of CO2 is dangerous as long as everything else is fine," but I don't think that is correct. Like any other non-oxygen gas, carbon dioxide is an asphyxiant, and it is routinely used as such to kill rats, but it has significant toxicity even at much lower levels. NIOSH says: > Signs of intoxication have been produced by a 30-minute exposure at 50,000 ppm [Aero 1953]…
The point is that in the scenarios you described CO2 increases at the cost of oxygen , which is obviously not good, and that's what GP was referring to as "everything else is fine". It would be interesting to see what happens if instead some of the nitrogen in the air is replaced by CO2. But that's obviously not what usually happens. And there are far more damaging air contents to worry about. Like mold spores. A cru…
Well, if you think it would be interesting, click the NIOSH link I provided and read the references, because that's pretty much what they're talking about.
> A crucial difference to CO is that [CO₂] doesn't cause permanent damage as long as oxygen supply is restored in time.
This is not correct; CO₂ poisoning can cause permanent injuries, including death, even when oxygen supply is never cut off, much less when it is restored in time. The comment you are replying to explained this in some detail and provided (abbreviated) references.
> [hemoglobin] touched by CO becomes essentially useless for the body since CO has a similarly high binding affinity to hemoglobin as oxygen. Recovering from that pretty much requires replacing the affected red blood cells.
This contains two major errors. First, CO binds much more strongly to hemoglobin than oxygen, about 240× as strongly; if it didn't, CO levels would have to be almost as high as oxygen levels to have an effect, but in fact 0.4% CO in the atmosphere is enough to kill you in half an hour. The second error, contradicting the first, is your claim that recovering from CO poisoning requires replacing the affected red blood cells. While CO binds to hemoglobin more strongly than oxygen, it isn't that strong; the carboxyhemoglobin thus produced can in fact release its CO and become functional hemoglobin again, with a half-life of about 5 hours. If replacing the affected red blood cells were required, it would be eliminated in about 30 days rather than about 5 hours. If, on the other hand, CO had a similarly high binding affinity to hemoglobin as oxygen, as you said it did, then it would be eliminated in about a minute rather than 5 hours.
Re: Decreased CO2 during breathwork: emergence of altered states of consciousness
#164Earlier quoted context omitted.
Everyone else in the water will hate you though. Everyone. Even the sea janitors are above you in social standing.
I think you have got your emotions mixed up, what you mean is called being jealous :) No, obviously, I understand the hate towards those foiling in a crowed point breaks. But, at least in my circle, most of it happens in places where nobody's surfing anyways. Downwinding is pretty much invisible. Surfing has fallen victim of its own success with overcrowded spots (people intentionally breaking each others surfboards,…
Re: Decreased CO2 during breathwork: emergence of altered states of consciousness
#165I rarely practised breathwork in my life but during my final year of high school I was basically locked in my house, and got a vitamin D deficiencey (quelle surprise) so I took up doing breathing meditation in a public park, and that really worked for me in a highly stressful period of time in my life, which got me some very good results, aced my exams, got into a decent college. I don't think I have applied myself a…
What kind of breathwork? Is it kind of the same as box breathing? That’s breathing in for four seconds, holding it in for four, exhaling and pausing all for four seconds.
Re: Decreased CO2 during breathwork: emergence of altered states of consciousness
#166Earlier quoted context omitted.
Not the most convincing advertisement
Just a different type of fun. I find avalanche training to have a similar effect for backcountry. For some it's sobering, for others it's terrifying.
That stuck with me.
Re: Decreased CO2 during breathwork: emergence of altered states of consciousness
#167Earlier quoted context omitted.
> I wonder if this is also using the vagus nerve to suppress being startled? I don't know about vagus nerve, but I can propose a different explanation. Emotions can change the state of your body, your brain feels the state and triggers emotions. It can become a self-reinforcing loop. In particular, diaphragm contractions or tension can be such a state. For example, I have sometimes issues with getting rid of anxiety,…
This is btw the whole idea behind Vipassana. The idea is that most of your suffering comes from your unconscious reaction to bodily sensations and you can train yourself to become more aware and equanimous.
Modern historians like to attack Eurocentrism of the history, but why psychologists are afraid to admit that psychology was started in Asia, that western psychologists still have something to learn from buddhists.
Re: Decreased CO2 during breathwork: emergence of altered states of consciousness
#168Earlier quoted context omitted.
This is btw the whole idea behind Vipassana. The idea is that most of your suffering comes from your unconscious reaction to bodily sensations and you can train yourself to become more aware and equanimous.
You know, I studied psychology and I still feel sadness that undergraduate course will discuss Galen and his humors determining different types of personality (only to mock the very idea of typologies), but it keep silence about buddhism, which is still is a source of insight for "western" psychologists, because it was ahead of them by centuries or even millennia. Modern historians like to attack Eurocentrism of the…
Re: Decreased CO2 during breathwork: emergence of altered states of consciousness
#169Earlier quoted context omitted.
This is a bit off topic, but what do you think about people doing nitrous recreationally? It's always concerned me that people are inhaling close to pure nitrous oxide and holding it in. I've always wondered if this creates damaging low-oxygen conditions without the normal reflexes kicking in, and if this can cause brain/neuronal damage. I believe in medical settings it's delivered in a mixture with O2, but in recrea…
I'm not one to tell people not to have fun, but i also lost a friend to respiratory failure after prolonged nitrous abuse, and had more then one start having auditory hallucinations. I think it's waning in popularity compared to 10 years ago, but maybe I'm just out of touch with what the kids get high on these days
Re: Decreased CO2 during breathwork: emergence of altered states of consciousness
#170Earlier quoted context omitted.
You know, I studied psychology and I still feel sadness that undergraduate course will discuss Galen and his humors determining different types of personality (only to mock the very idea of typologies), but it keep silence about buddhism, which is still is a source of insight for "western" psychologists, because it was ahead of them by centuries or even millennia. Modern historians like to attack Eurocentrism of the…
It seems that Western psychology doesn’t look much into on how you can train your mind? Maybe because it is hard to test? In eastern psychology you have practitioners who have trained a specific technique for decades and then share their experience. It’s a completely different way of researching.
It didn't work though. I can't remember why exactly it didn't work, can only guess.