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Decreased CO2 during breathwork: emergence of altered states of consciousness

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Re: Decreased CO2 during breathwork: emergence of altered states of consciousness

#141

Post by gosub100 »

sergioisidoro wrote: post #75

Personal anecdote: I do freediving, so CO2 tolerance training is common, and I've done it on and off. Basically you do breath holds to train your body to get used to high leves of CO2. I've found that brief high C02 levels are very good for activation, and to get out of a lethargic state. I don't know if a mix of cortisol and vasoconstriction and dive reflex triggered by the CO2, but I feel like it's a tool I have on…

I'm in a bad spot because I love swimming but I can barely hold my breath for 20s.

Re: Decreased CO2 during breathwork: emergence of altered states of consciousness

#142

Post by nikitoci »

OxO4 wrote: post #92
timewizard wrote: post #69

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Ah the wisdom has changed. This was more often taught when I was younger, which yes, was quite a while ago. The warnings given then were don't go for depth with this method, exhale occasionally while underwater, and manage your breath again immediately on the surface.

Freedivers are also taught not to exhale underwater, because it wastes oxygen and lowers your CO2 level, making it harder to know when you actually have to come back up. Your body can't sense the level of oxygen it has, so freedivers rely on CO2 levels as a proxy, so messing with it is dangerous.

And you also becoming much less buoyant and will not surface without actively swimming or pulling the line.

Re: Decreased CO2 during breathwork: emergence of altered states of consciousness

#143

Post by maebert »

kragen wrote: post #134
maebert wrote: post #130

Earlier quoted context omitted.

yeah in a medical setting it's usually never good, but afaik it's not the tetany that doctors are worried about about but rather what's causing it. I did a longer write-up on the physiological effects which you might find interesting: https://docs.google.com/document/d/1RuDv_E9osM1CCFWZMywMru9J...

Is this the same thing you linked upthread? At first glance the URL looks the same.

Yes, sorry for crossposting, just seemed relevant here

Re: Decreased CO2 during breathwork: emergence of altered states of consciousness

#144

Post by maebert »

aaron695 wrote: post #12

Astronauts in the Gemini and Apollo programs breathed 100 percent oxygen at reduced pressure for up to two weeks There are no reports of "altered states of consciousness" I know of. There would have been rigorous testing before. Similarly divers, I've never heard of lack/decreased CO2 causing their hallucinations vs nitrogen narcosis or hydrogen narcosis. This sounds made up, have they been getting high on their own…

Good observation! Lower co2 concentration isn't caused by simply inhaling more oxygen, but rather by blowing off too much co2.

Co2 is produced by the body, and the rate at which it is produced doesn't change much if you breathe pure oxygen. it's how we get rid of the co2 is what is being modulated during breathwork.

Re: Decreased CO2 during breathwork: emergence of altered states of consciousness

#145

Post by patall »

zemvpferreira wrote: post #120
patall wrote: post #119

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Or just join the foiling community and go 40% wave riding. 80+% if pure down winding. Entree is a little more expensive but you save on not having to travel exotic locations (or not at all).

Everyone else in the water will hate you though. Everyone. Even the sea janitors are above you in social standing.

I think you have got your emotions mixed up, what you mean is called being jealous :)

No, obviously, I understand the hate towards those foiling in a crowed point breaks. But, at least in my circle, most of it happens in places where nobody's surfing anyways. Downwinding is pretty much invisible. Surfing has fallen victim of its own success with overcrowded spots (people intentionally breaking each others surfboards, come on) and the necessary travelling isn't great for the planet either (nor is a carbon foil, obviously)

Re: Decreased CO2 during breathwork: emergence of altered states of consciousness

#146

Post by aeblyve »

Worth noting that a decrease in end-tidal CO2 pressure (i.e., decreased amount of Co2 in an exhalation) is not in itself a statement about the amount of Co2 in tissues. A rudimentary analysis might even say that lower Co2 as measured in exhalation implies that more Co2 is retained in the tissues.

Bohr effect and others corroborate the idea that Co2 is not just a "waste gas" produced by respiration but has an important biological role in its own right.

Ingestion of baking soda, which supplies Co2 to tissues, is so effective at countering the effects of lactic acid from muscle overexertion that its administration is banned in horse racing.

It stands to reason that higher Co2 can protect against lactate throughout tissues, perhaps even including the brain, especially in a condition where the brain favors fermentation over respiration (as in cancer, per Warburg effect, and depending on who you ask, in mental illness/depression)

Re: Decreased CO2 during breathwork: emergence of altered states of consciousness

#147

Post by S33V »

patall wrote: post #119
zemvpferreira wrote: post #85

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Because panicking when you're being rag-dolled by even smallish waves can kill you, let alone waves of consequence. I don't have the words to describe what it feels like to be pushed to the bottom of the ocean by a wave, then just as you feel like you're running out of air be pushed back down by the next wave, and the next wave. You have no idea which direction is up and which is down, or how long it's been since you…

Or just join the foiling community and go 40% wave riding. 80+% if pure down winding. Entree is a little more expensive but you save on not having to travel exotic locations (or not at all).

The one time I see surfing mentioned on HN and of course HN squeezes out the most nerdy take on surfing possible

Re: Decreased CO2 during breathwork: emergence of altered states of consciousness

#148

Post by klik99 »

S33V wrote: post #147
patall wrote: post #119

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Or just join the foiling community and go 40% wave riding. 80+% if pure down winding. Entree is a little more expensive but you save on not having to travel exotic locations (or not at all).

The one time I see surfing mentioned on HN and of course HN squeezes out the most nerdy take on surfing possible

Literally why I'm here

Re: Decreased CO2 during breathwork: emergence of altered states of consciousness

#149

Post by klik99 »

Youden wrote: post #60
elevaet wrote: post #55

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is a bit off topic, but what do you think about people doing nitrous recreationally? It's always concerned me that people are inhaling close to pure nitrous oxide and holding it in. I've always wondered if this creates damaging low-oxygen conditions without the normal reflexes kicking in, and if this can cause brain/neuronal damage. I believe in medical settings it's delivered in a mixture with O2, but in recrea…

I was being treated with nitrous medically. I asked the anaesthesiologist about how it works recreationally and his answer was that yes, it was mostly just hypoxia.

This is why you shouldn't trust experts on stuff outside their speciality, this answer is just wrong.

You don't even need to research it, the lived experience of being in a dentist office with mixed oxygen and nitrous produces the recreational effects - if it was mostly hypoxia, having oxygen mixed in would have a greatly diminished "recreational" effect.

I mean, it is true most people doing it recreationally are giving themselves mild to severe hypoxia, but that doesn't mean the effect is caused by hypoxia

Re: Decreased CO2 during breathwork: emergence of altered states of consciousness

#150

Post by a1371 »

kragen wrote: post #90
a1371 wrote: post #26

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Our current understanding is that no amount of CO2 is dangerous as long as everything else is fine, but in reality CO2 acts like the canary in the coal mine. When it climbs, it shows accumulation of stuff you don't want to deal with. Measurement of compounds is best done using a monitor like Aranet, but incidental bumps in different values don't mean much. Long trends matter. If Radon is an issue in your region, a de…

You say, "Our current understanding is that no amount of CO2 is dangerous as long as everything else is fine," but I don't think that is correct. Like any other non-oxygen gas, carbon dioxide is an asphyxiant, and it is routinely used as such to kill rats, but it has significant toxicity even at much lower levels. NIOSH says: > Signs of intoxication have been produced by a 30-minute exposure at 50,000 ppm [Aero 1953]…

It's good to keep in mind that in your home the CO2 usually ranges from 400ppm to say 2,000 ppm. Getting to something like 100,000 ppm is not really plausible for a typical home. I get how in a submarine the conditions are different.

From 9:50 onwards of this video explains what I meant: https://youtu.be/CkGDN85I29U?t=590

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