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Craigslist Suing Padmapper

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Re: Craigslist Suing Padmapper

#161

Post by eli »

soup10 wrote: post #143
jaysonelliot wrote: post #66

"(Craigslist) said it offered a license that would have allowed PadMapper to use its data on mobile applications but that the competitor did not accept the terms." But on the other hand, "users and developers are exasperated with Craigslist’s insistence on preserving an outdated interface and design." I don't know the legal merits of either party's position, but from an ethical perspective, I tend to side with Craigs…

I don't like Craigslist because of lock in. Sellers must sell there because they are the biggest market, buyers must buy there because they are the biggest market. Everyone is locked in. Lock-in is super common(and often unintentional or unavoidable), but it goes against the ideal of equal opportunity and competitive markets that rewards companies for a continuous commitment to quality and innovation. I feel that cra…

True, but it's also very easy as a buyer (or seller) to use more than one site. Nothing about Craigslist is exclusive and in that sense the lock-in is very weak.

A Craigslist competitor doesn't need a huge market share to be viable. For me as a seller, it just has to expand my audience of buyers enough to justify the small amount of time it takes to post and manage a second listing.

Re: Craigslist Suing Padmapper

#162

Post by IanDrake »

ig1 wrote: post #137
IanDrake wrote: post #119

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> its stopping Padmapper from using Craigslist data Is it Craigslist's data? Does Craigslist own the posts that caused women to be murdered and stolen property to be sold? If they own that data, then they must be culpable (to some degree) for these bad acts. If they own it, they are now more than just a service provider (IMO) and can no longer be protected by the DCA. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Communications_Dece…

No. I could write something illegal (libelous, inciting a crime, etc) and assign copyright to you without your consent .

Ok, but then I wouldn't later claim ownership of it as Craigslist has (implying they have consented).

Re: Craigslist Suing Padmapper

#163

Post by crazygringo »

nlh wrote: post #138

I find this sort of thing very frustrating to read: "The search tool is antiquated, the images are poor or nonexistent, locations of listings are hardly dependable, and you can forget about an integrated way to save anything for later reference. There is a litany of shortcomings that come with the Craigslist apartment search; they are many and they are painful..." If you don't like the site, don't like the UI, and ca…

> If you don't like the site, don't like the UI, and can't stand the UX, then don't use the site. Nobody is forcing you to search for an apartment on CL. Nobody is forcing owners to list apartments on CL.

Yes they are being "forced" to list on CL, because as much as you hate the UX, UI, etc., that's where the buyers are. And as much as the buyers hate the site, that's where the sellers are. I hate CL, but I was forced to use it because lock-in makes it impossible for anyone else to compete.

Re: Craigslist Suing Padmapper

#164

Post by unreal37 »

learc83 wrote: post #125
hardtke wrote: post #113

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Here's the abstract for a nice review of search engine law: http://works.bepress.com/james_grimmelmann/13/ If I remember correctly, indexing a site that asks to not be indexed might be illegal as an illegal tresspass, but it is not settled law. The argument is that you are stealing resources (computer time) from the site owner.

>The argument is that you are stealing resources (computer time) from the site owner. That's why 3taps is getting the data from google's cache without touching craigslist servers.

It's not impossible. You just tell google not to cache.

Re: Craigslist Suing Padmapper

#165

Post by debacle »

callmevlad wrote: post #140
debacle wrote: post #76

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Because if you ask Google to remove you from their index, they will. Rupert Murdoch has threatened this in the past. Each time he's backed down, because he knows that being removed from Google's index is akin to being removed from the Internet.

I can imagine some clever hacks where Padmapper uses Google targeted searches and Google's cache exclusively to get Craigslist data. Since Craigslist would never ask Google to remove them from their index, I wonder if Craigslist would still go after those who get their data as proxied by Google.

> Padmapper uses...Google's cache exclusively to get Craigslist data.

That's what Padmapper is doing right now. They're being sued for it.

Re: Craigslist Suing Padmapper

#166

Post by moron »

jetti wrote: post #67
praxulus wrote: post #62

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Because we're also a community of apartment seekers, and Padmapper makes Craigslist's data many times more useful. It's fine if Craigslist wants us to use their mapping service, but it doesn't exist yet . It's a purely selfish argument, but shutting down Padmapper does nothing but make our lives more difficult.

That is hardly shutting down Padmapper. It is just a roadblock and they would have to find another source of data. It has been clear for many years that Craigslist doesn't want their site scraped, so building a business that is so dependent that it would close if they lost that source the business would be ruined is extremely short sighted. Edit: finished my thought that I left out mid-sentence.

No, it is effectively shutting down Padmapper. Apartment listings are on Craigslist.

As I have said elsewhere, I think Craigslist are within their rights here, but the situation still sucks. People want to browse apartment listings on a map, and Craigslist won't let us.

Re: Craigslist Suing Padmapper

#167

Post by argv_empty »

chimi wrote: post #37
cwp wrote: post #22

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Padmapper doesn't steal IP.

It's pretty clear that Padmapper is making use of the craigslist posts without the rights to do so, which is defined by Merriam-Webster as "stealing". STEALING transitive verb 1a : to take or appropriate without right or leave and with intent to keep or make use of wrongfully http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/stealing If you're going to downvote me, that's fine, but if you do, please show how copyright infrin…

"Find which dictionary phrases it the way I like" is a pretty silly game, especially when they're so vague about the definitions they use anyway.

Re: Craigslist Suing Padmapper

#169

Post by unreal37 »

fireflash38 wrote: post #156
waterlesscloud wrote: post #144

Earlier quoted context omitted.

For that analogy to hold, PadMapper would have to be pulling data from a large number of sources. The value that Google News provides is that it aggregates a very large number of sources. PadMapper does not.

Padmapper collates data from multiple sources: Craigslist, Rent.com, Apartments.com, and "Others" (not sure which those would be).

It's pretty clear PadMapper was BUILT off of Craigslist that CL's poor UI is isn't entire reason for being, and it never would have been successful without CL. It's disingenuous to ignore that by listing "rent.com" as an alternate source.

Re: Craigslist Suing Padmapper

#170

Post by AndyKelley »

Craigslist makes its data publicly available. How can it be illegal to access that data? It may be against Craigslist's Terms of Service, but that means it's up to Craigslist to figure out how to prevent scraping. It does not mean the law needs to be involved.
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