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A three month review of kagi search and the orion web browser (2024)

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Re: A three month review of kagi search and the orion web browser (2024)

#161

Post by llamaimperative »

throwaway290 wrote: post #157
llamaimperative wrote: post #128

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't use the domain blacklisting at all, encounter spam ~never, and almost always get what I'm looking for in the top 5 results. 1) Google now requiring special skill to use is a totally legitimate way in which Google is inferior 2) I'm actually quite good at Googling and know much of the advanced syntax -- still sucks as of a few years ago! Obviously people's mileage may vary, but if anyone else is reading this a…

> I don't use the domain blacklisting at all, encounter spam ~never, and almost always get what I'm looking for in the top 5 results. I encountered spam with Kagi half a dozen times. It was labeled "trustworthy". It is 100x worse than just seeing spam. Having to pay for it just adds insult to injury. If there is a search engine it will be gamed. What we need is not trust the algorithm but have a good query mechanism.…

I don’t even know what “trustworthy” label you’re referring to, but also no, literally no one is gaming a search engine with like 0.01% market share.

Re: A three month review of kagi search and the orion web browser (2024)

#162

Post by throwaway290 »

llamaimperative wrote: post #161
throwaway290 wrote: post #157

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I don't use the domain blacklisting at all, encounter spam ~never, and almost always get what I'm looking for in the top 5 results. I encountered spam with Kagi half a dozen times. It was labeled "trustworthy". It is 100x worse than just seeing spam. Having to pay for it just adds insult to injury. If there is a search engine it will be gamed. What we need is not trust the algorithm but have a good query mechanism.…

I don’t even know what “trustworthy” label you’re referring to, but also no, literally no one is gaming a search engine with like 0.01% market share.

I thought you use Kagi. It's the label on the right of search result. When I used Kagi it could change color depending on how good Kagi thinks it is (I also remember a bar indicator under it but maybe something changed again). You click on it and you can downrank/uprank the site. If I wanted to really have only good results I would have to do it every day. I'm sure it was good for Kagi because they used it for their crowd sourced ranking but I didn't feel good doing it and paying for the privilege.

I left after I noticed that Google gets me mostly the same results. Plus I have more privacy and less tracking across all web if I don't need to leave private mode.

> literally no one is gaming a search engine with like 0.01% market share.

Kagi is a front-end for google and other search engines. Gaming google and bing is literally gaming kagi.

Re: A three month review of kagi search and the orion web browser (2024)

#163

Post by tiltowait »

benhurmarcel wrote: post #141
rcmjr wrote: post #129

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Perplexity serving ads now made me cancel them

Do they still serve ads when you subscribe?

They do not. Also, the ads are sponsored follow-ups. Maybe someday they will be more blatant, but for now at least, they are easily ignored. I almost never use the canned follow-ups.

Re: A three month review of kagi search and the orion web browser (2024)

#164

Post by Aachen »

carlosjobim wrote: post #159
Aachen wrote: post #154

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Duckduckgo has a selector for country on the search results page, is this different somehow?

Try it and judge the quality of the results. I never got any quality non-English results from any alternative to Google, before trying Kagi. Note that you should select your preferred non-English language as your standard language in Kagi and not the "International" option. You can still search in any language.

Thanks, I'll try that in Kagi! Still meaning to try it out in the first place after they rejected my first payment last time (took the money, didn't credit the account, refunded some time later, forgot to try again after that).

Must agree the quality of local results in DDG is mediocre, but then there's also simply much less information being posted in these minority languages (locals posting info in English and thus not matching the keywords, like I do nine out of ten times as well) so I don't know how good it could be in a perfect search engine

Re: A three month review of kagi search and the orion web browser (2024)

#165

Post by rat87 »

tessierashpool9 wrote: post #97
llamaimperative wrote: post #91

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Only psychopath children: “I’m not bullying him, I’m just saying if he does anything I don’t want him to do I will bully him.” Allegedly astute observers of European history: “Russia isn’t an aggressor, it just will aggress if its independent neighbors do anything Russia doesn’t like.” Yeah bro that’s still called “starting a war.”

sure, but that is sadly how world politics works. if the US expands nato right to the border of russia then they retaliate. ukraine fought a war against their own citizens in the eastern half when they sympathized with opening up to russia - a majority there perceives themselves as russians. this is not just whataboutism - if you don't fight for resources then you'll have to buy them for a very high price. and ukrain…

> if the US expands nato right to the border of russia then they retaliate.

US didn't expand NATO, those countries begged and pleased and threatened to get in and the US and other NATO countries finally threw up their hands and said fine. Note they didn't build any bases there or station significant amount of troops there.

> ukraine fought a war against their own citizens in the eastern half

To portray any part of the Ukranian war as a civil war even 2014-2021 is wrong. Ukraine fought Russia. At most there were a handful of far right and criminals who were willing to fight their own country. Girkin the FSB agent who took the first steps in the war admitted that if it hadn't been for Russia Ukraine would just have arrested the handful of troublemakers.

> when they sympathized with opening up to russia

I feel like you don't know very much about Immigration or business between Ukraine and Russia before Russia invaded, things were pretty open. It's that Russia ruined it by invading.

> a majority there perceives themselves as russians.

If you don't know the demographics or identities of Ukraine then please don't make stuff up. The majority considered themselves ethnically Ukranian in almost all parts of eastern Ukraine including Donetsk and Luhansk oblasts. And of course ethnicity isn't politics there are shit ton of soldiers politicians and ordinary Ukranian citizens of russian origin supporting their country. The head commander of Ukraine is an ethnic Russian who moved to Ukraine as a teenager and still has family there.

> this is not just whataboutism - if you don't fight for resources then you'll have to buy them for a very high price. and ukraine is very rich in resources.

Russia has many more resources. Granted this war has been built on idiocy but invading Ukraine for resources makes no sense considering how much it would have business/expenses it would have cost even if Russia could have won

> as is greenland.

Greenland is militarily useful because of its location. It already has a US base so the status quo is good for the US

The problem with people who claim the Russian war on Ukraine is more complicated is that they dont seem interested in the actual complexity as opposed to the Russian propaganda.

Re: A three month review of kagi search and the orion web browser (2024)

#167

Post by bboygravity »

The_Rob wrote: post #138
bboygravity wrote: post #40

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That (25 usd for Claude + Kagi) is the best sales pitch ever. I'm switching :) Not sure what I'll do when Grok 3 comes out (I expect it to beat every other LLM out there hands down) but we'll see by then :p

What is it about Grok that you expect to be so much better? Not disagreeing necessarily, just want to know your reasoning.

Better LLM seems to be about who has the most compute and data for training.

xAI has (by far) the most compute and data now.

Re: A three month review of kagi search and the orion web browser (2024)

#168

Post by cuu508 »

throwaway290 wrote: post #158
llamaimperative wrote: post #113

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Like "the US expanding NATO" haha. No one is coerced into joining NATO, ya goofball. Yes, dictators who express imperialist ambitions and who fashion themselves after former emperors tend to engage in empire building. Ooooo so complicated!

My position as a russian, if you want something (resources, gas pipeline, whatever) you make a better offer than the other guy. it is called diplomacy, such a new concept. You attack = you are unilaterally at fault. I heard so many times how ukraine "invited the attack" by behaving in ways russia didn't like. Tbh I feel like anyone who says that is a potential domestic abuser. While Kagi is not good enough for an adv…

They do pay Yandex https://kagifeedback.org/d/5445-reconsider-yandex-integratio...

Re: A three month review of kagi search and the orion web browser (2024)

#169

Post by throwaway290 »

cuu508 wrote: post #168
throwaway290 wrote: post #158

Earlier quoted context omitted.

My position as a russian, if you want something (resources, gas pipeline, whatever) you make a better offer than the other guy. it is called diplomacy, such a new concept. You attack = you are unilaterally at fault. I heard so many times how ukraine "invited the attack" by behaving in ways russia didn't like. Tbh I feel like anyone who says that is a potential domestic abuser. While Kagi is not good enough for an adv…

They do pay Yandex https://kagifeedback.org/d/5445-reconsider-yandex-integratio...

Well, that changes things a bit. Glad I don't use it anymore... IMO their "pay to help us rank search results we get from other engines" is not great anyway.
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