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Assisted dying now accounts for one in 20 Canada deaths

bbc.com

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Re: Assisted dying now accounts for one in 20 Canada deaths

#161

Post by AlexandrB »

rich_sasha wrote: post #40
dathos wrote: post #30

My grandma always told me when she couldn’t go on her walks anymore she didn’t consider life worth living. When she got dementia she was placed in a closed hospice, to “protect her”. Now she only walks when I visit, and I only see a shell of the woman she was. Anecdotal of course, but why do people think it’s an ethics question when society is individualistic as can be? There is no choice in being born, why don’t we…

To my mind the main obstacle is kind of orthogonal: how do you protect the people who don't want to go, being pressured or manipulated. I agree that if someone is really, independently and committedly deciding to go, you shouldn't stop them. But how do you express that test in a bureaucratic, legalistic framework? In a friend's family, there was a big rift as one family member in direct line of inheritance was accuse…

> To my mind the main obstacle is kind of orthogonal: how do you protect the people who don't want to go, being pressured or manipulated.

This is why it's important to have a pretty detailed living will[1]. Especially is you're already chronically ill and have a pretty good idea of how that road ends.

[1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Advance_healthcare_directive

Re: Assisted dying now accounts for one in 20 Canada deaths

#162

Post by nashashmi »

gnfargbl wrote: post #75
SapporoChris wrote: post #59

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"They relayed an example of a person who had spent their last days vomiting fully-formed faeces." Sounds like a fully-formed exaggeration. Vomiting once or twice a day is not spending your last days vomiting. More frequent vomiting? The supply could not possibly meet the demand. Especially if the patient stopped eating.

You can listen to the account yourself at https://www.bbc.co.uk/sounds/play/m00253mt , from around 25 minutes onwards. I found it convincing.

vomit is usually liquid or heavily digested stuff. feces is compacted and excreted. my imagination maybe a little specific here but so is the description "fully formed feces"

Re: Assisted dying now accounts for one in 20 Canada deaths

#163

Post by okaram »

rich_sasha wrote: post #40
dathos wrote: post #30

My grandma always told me when she couldn’t go on her walks anymore she didn’t consider life worth living. When she got dementia she was placed in a closed hospice, to “protect her”. Now she only walks when I visit, and I only see a shell of the woman she was. Anecdotal of course, but why do people think it’s an ethics question when society is individualistic as can be? There is no choice in being born, why don’t we…

To my mind the main obstacle is kind of orthogonal: how do you protect the people who don't want to go, being pressured or manipulated. I agree that if someone is really, independently and committedly deciding to go, you shouldn't stop them. But how do you express that test in a bureaucratic, legalistic framework? In a friend's family, there was a big rift as one family member in direct line of inheritance was accuse…

The way most countries who have it (including Canada) have solved it is to add waiting periods, and layers of reviews. In Canada, you need two different doctors to sign off on it. If you're not actively dying, you also have a 90-day period of reflection. And you have to be of sound mind.

This seems to me like good enough safeguards, don't you think?

Re: Assisted dying now accounts for one in 20 Canada deaths

#164

Post by jstummbillig »

darth_avocado wrote: post #136
guyzero wrote: post #131

My Canadian parents are in their 80's so naturally a lot of their friends of the same age are dying. And two of them have been via MAID. In one case, which was surprising to me, a man who had survived cancer - he was not terminal but certainly wasn't getting any better - elected to die via MAID after his wife died. She passed, he called his doctor and less than a week later he was also dead. He got a chance to visit…

I wouldn’t call someone dealing with cancer and the loss of his wife sound of mind within one week of the loss.

I think in a case like this, it’s simple to introspect, hard to empathize with the person that matters, and easy confuse the two.

Re: Assisted dying now accounts for one in 20 Canada deaths

#165

Post by lolc »

snakeyjake wrote: post #33
snehk wrote: post #23

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You cannot trust this article. Just check out the cases where they basically tell poor people that euthanasia is always an option. It's horrible. If they don't talk about where the program goes horribly wrong, we shouldn't listen to them when they talk about the supposed positives.

I don't think you need to try very hard to convince a terminally-ill patient in constant agony to end it, poor or not. My 93 year old grandmother has COPD and she wants to end her life but cannot. She is NOT poor. In her state in the US, a bipartisan bill was introduced to allow for euthanasia but the religious extremists killed it. She coughs so badly, even on oxygen with frequent albuterol treatments, that she is c…

Sounds horrible having to live through that.

Out of curiosity, because I assume you've discussed these questions: If she refused treatment except for opiates, would that allow her to die faster?

Re: Assisted dying now accounts for one in 20 Canada deaths

#166

Post by fellowniusmonk »

darth_avocado wrote: post #153
guyzero wrote: post #142

Earlier quoted context omitted.

He had apparently expressed his intention before she passed. I do not know all the details and this is second hand, but he apparently had a plan.

I would’ve expected at least a waiting period longer than a week after a traumatic event. Of course I don’t know all the circumstances around it.

A lot of equations and generally good advice for the younger set changes when you're in you 80s. I think unless you've had a pretty unstable life or have real serious mental illness you know yourself pretty damn well by that point.

Re: Assisted dying now accounts for one in 20 Canada deaths

#167

Post by myth_drannon »

grecy wrote: post #60

Theses headlines are always sensationalist, because it sounds like these deaths are avoidable. To be clear, all of these people were going to die within days, weeks, or at most a few months. Death is certain. Dignity at the end is the least we can ask for.

Per my understanding, some deaths could have been avoided if not for the collapsed medical system in Canada. So if the person reaches the stage of advanced cancer because lack of care and is offered MAID first before getting cancer treatment, was it avoidable?

Re: Assisted dying now accounts for one in 20 Canada deaths

#168

Post by nashashmi »

dathos wrote: post #30

My grandma always told me when she couldn’t go on her walks anymore she didn’t consider life worth living. When she got dementia she was placed in a closed hospice, to “protect her”. Now she only walks when I visit, and I only see a shell of the woman she was. Anecdotal of course, but why do people think it’s an ethics question when society is individualistic as can be? There is no choice in being born, why don’t we…

> why do people think it’s an ethics question when society is individualistic as can be

Because we disagree that society is individualistic. We are social creatures, not individualist creatures. And we need people around us. Including you needing your grandma. And she needs people like you.

turn the question around: why do people feel easy escapes are ok? We came in this world and were assisted in our upbringing and lived to old age, so why is it ok that we can feel like we can just get up and leave?

Re: Assisted dying now accounts for one in 20 Canada deaths

#170

Post by niceice »

"For the first time, the report delved into race and ethnic data of those who died by euthanasia.

Around 96% of recipients identified as white people, who account for about 70% of Canada's population. It is unclear what caused this disparity."

Any good hypothesis about this?

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