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Voyager 1 breaks its silence with NASA via radio transmitter not used since 1981

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Re: Voyager 1 breaks its silence with NASA via radio transmitter not used since 1981

#161

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Still a huge amount of luck involved. If that planetary alignment had happened even 10 years earlier NASA probably wouldn't have had the capability to do anything with it. If it had been sometime recently, say after the Challenger disaster, I doubt it would have got funding...

There's no way that a disaster on a manned mission would affect a satellite launch. They share nothing in common.

> There’s no way that a disaster on a manned mission would affect a satellite launch. They share nothing in common.

It would definitely affect satellites, since the shuttle was a major satellite launch system. But even a deep space probe project like Voyager would be at risk, even though it seem directly related, because by affecting the political prestige of NASA, it effects everything that has to get funded at NASA – the politics of legislation are not bounded by rational direct impacts.

Re: Voyager 1 breaks its silence with NASA via radio transmitter not used since 1981

#162

Now that we've got SpaceX cheap launches, it's time to launch a fleet of solar system probes and space telescopes. Why isn't this happening?

If there’s any chance that the Dark Forest theory is valid, I’d really rather we not!

Re: Voyager 1 breaks its silence with NASA via radio transmitter not used since 1981

#163

I think the Voyager probes teach us lots about what's wrong with corporate America. Imagine devices that don't have built-in obsolescence, or licensing that expires, or that isn't built by committee where they just keep shipping requirements around from one department to another. Imagine if it weren't all proprietary and if it didn't have no public or even complete documentation. Think of all the problems we have ins…

What's wrong with the Boeing case on needing to be rebooted. It doesn't seem much worse then memory leaks in missle guidance tracking systems that exceed flight time. We have finite resources, if the effort to correct is minimal what's the harm?

>We have finite resources

So design systems that does not exceed those resources.

Re: Voyager 1 breaks its silence with NASA via radio transmitter not used since 1981

#164

I think the Voyager probes teach us lots about what's wrong with corporate America. Imagine devices that don't have built-in obsolescence, or licensing that expires, or that isn't built by committee where they just keep shipping requirements around from one department to another. Imagine if it weren't all proprietary and if it didn't have no public or even complete documentation. Think of all the problems we have ins…

I haven’t yet had a chance to work on aerospace (or beyond) equipment though I do work on medical grade things and some of the parts are aerospace certified, though they haven’t been put through the ringer. In particular, I work with high voltage/amperage, high liquid pressure and high temperature systems. Some of it has been running for close to 25-30 years with very few issues. Only recently have I had to open a power supply that degraded since it was first put into service (over 20 years ago). I’ve gotten into a habit of identifying parts that, through experience, I know will fail or can fail and replaced them with ones that are all but guaranteed to outlive me. I want the person, if anyone, who comes after to see the work that’s of higher standard than what came out of the factory. No machine can continue working forever, but one can get much closer to having fewer failure points. As an aside, to get to here however was a struggle of obtaining all sorts of things I shouldn’t have access to because the manufacturer started locking access down heavily. Story for another time.

Re: Voyager 1 breaks its silence with NASA via radio transmitter not used since 1981

#165

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Shhhh, this is HN, where just like on reddit, a bunch of computer programmers think they know more than a professional in said professional's field.

> this is HN, a bunch of computer programmers think they know more than And they are correct At least on the programming part, having in mind the huge advances in computers since the Voyager was built. Any professional computer programmer here knows more in their field than a programmer from 70's. A Voyager built today with similar resources would be much better, 100% guaranteed. Voyager 1 was a fantastic machine don…

> Any professional computer programmer here knows more in their field than a programmer from 70’s

Programming for regimes with different constraints is…very different. In a very real sense, “their field” for most modern programmers isn’t even the same field as developing software for 1970s deep space probes, plus, the issue wasn’t even about software but about end-to-end building and launching space probes (that was both what the quote was about and the field of the Voyager project manager.

But thanks for demonstrating the kind of hubris that the post you were responding to described.

Re: Voyager 1 breaks its silence with NASA via radio transmitter not used since 1981

#166

For the HN ultra-nerds: is there a book that details the voyager 1 construction including sensors, PCBs, materials compositions manufacturing processes and all that? I’m looking for something so dense I’ll need a therapist to find my way back to society afterwards. Truly curious thank you.

This PDF (101 pages) should get you started: https://ntrs.nasa.gov/api/citations/19660011758/downloads/19...

Re: Voyager 1 breaks its silence with NASA via radio transmitter not used since 1981

#167
post #163

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What's wrong with the Boeing case on needing to be rebooted. It doesn't seem much worse then memory leaks in missle guidance tracking systems that exceed flight time. We have finite resources, if the effort to correct is minimal what's the harm?

>We have finite resources So design systems that does not exceed those resources.

Why? You increase cost for what? The Boeing example I believe related to this defect which occurs after 51 days of operation: https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.theregister.com/AMP/2020/04...

This seems sane given that the planes don't operate for 51 days constantly (I'm not in aerospace so please correct me, it seems a reboot could occur with refueling without issue)

Re: Voyager 1 breaks its silence with NASA via radio transmitter not used since 1981

#168

I think the Voyager probes teach us lots about what's wrong with corporate America. Imagine devices that don't have built-in obsolescence, or licensing that expires, or that isn't built by committee where they just keep shipping requirements around from one department to another. Imagine if it weren't all proprietary and if it didn't have no public or even complete documentation. Think of all the problems we have ins…

I have a hard time feeling complainy about stuff like this because if engineers are doing their jobs properly, they’re implementing the defined requirements. Requirements are guided by business decisions on what matters and what doesn’t matter for a project.

So ultimately this means that if the argument is that the business is making the wrong decisions, then that means there’s an opportunity for someone to profit by proving them wrong.

I love Voyager but it also cost something like a billion dollars. So it’s a bit unsurprising that it is such a resilient system.

Re: Voyager 1 breaks its silence with NASA via radio transmitter not used since 1981

#169

I think the Voyager probes teach us lots about what's wrong with corporate America. Imagine devices that don't have built-in obsolescence, or licensing that expires, or that isn't built by committee where they just keep shipping requirements around from one department to another. Imagine if it weren't all proprietary and if it didn't have no public or even complete documentation. Think of all the problems we have ins…

Yes. As a left-libertarian, I criticize corporations and their profit motive all the time. I see the concentration of power being married to the inherent incentives of increasing share value for the shareholder class. The only way I see we can reform the system — and fix many of the problems — is to gradually replace shares with utility tokens, ie the accounting system inside an ecosystem that producers and consumers of a marketplace use, and gradully buy out the parasitic class of “investors” who just want to extract rents and enshittify everything. It is a bit like the efforts Europe undertook at peacefully buying out slaves from masters or serfs from feudal lords. Just get out gradually from an economic system that encouraged exploitation.

We have just been inculcated with this exploitation as a “natural” part of our capitalist system for so long, since childhood for most of us, that many have a knee-jerk reaction to shut down this line of criticism and not hear the simple solution. Many on HN have built a startup when they’re young, been part of the VC industry, akin to a music prodigy or young actor or model being “discovered” by “talent scout”, and sold a dream which only a few achieve. For every 1 person who makes it big, 1000 who do the same thing fail. But they keep licking the boots of the system hoping they’ll be among the lucky ones, so they better say nice things. If they see words like “utility tokens” they immediately think “grift”, when in fact the system they’re supporting has grift and exploitation built in. Having utility token holders buy out shareholders also may be an element in furthering SDG goals and “stakeholder capitalism”, and saving the planet. But hey, as soon as the words are uttered which may trigger pushback, the system starts to protect itself, in the form of downvotes or strawman attacks etc.

Yeah, planned obsolescence is one feature of corporate control and profit system. As is surveillance capitalism, or pollution, or pushing people to work long hours, or have a gig economy, neglect their kids, or having people in echo chambers be angry at each other online because anger and misunderstanding leads to more “engagement” etc. All the ways that represent gradual “enshittification” that Cory Doctorow coined, is not an accident. These are all negative externalities, which are all traced back to one main factor: the profit motive of shareholders as a core feature in the system, forever. The rents aren’t going to extract themselves.

Re: Voyager 1 breaks its silence with NASA via radio transmitter not used since 1981

#170
post #31

I'm reading Pale Blue Dot to my kids at night currently so this is really awesome. (The Voyager missions are described in excellent detail in ways that I never appreciated fully before.) It blows my mind that these are machines from the 8-track era. And they have fallbacks and redundancies that were completely ahead of their time.

One feels a terrible disappointment Sagan didn't live to see the future mission projects he talks about in the book get finished and most of them succeeded IIRC. By happenstance the 2024 Solar System BBC series mostly uses animation but has some real photos and videos to document a lot of happened since the book was published.

I think Carl Sagan would overall just kind of be deeply sad about how it is turning out.

“In the demon-haunted world that we inhabit by virtue of being human, this may be all that stands between us and the enveloping darkness. I worry that, especially as the Millennium edges nearer, pseudoscience and superstition will seem year by year more tempting, the siren song of unreason more sonorous and attractive.”

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