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Living outside America

ryancarson.com

161–170 of 216 posts

Re: Living outside America

#161
post #133
post #47

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What culture? American culture, compared to most of Europe and Asia is underdeveloped and shallow. Not to mention, 20% of US citizens are not even native English speakers. All the points you're listing could be more appropriately used to describe Japan.

What in the world is your definition of "culture"? It is not something that is rooted mainly in age, as if a 80 year old could be assumed to have more "culture" that a 30-year-old pioneering artist.

I'm sorry, I wanted to write a brief comment and it seems I offended you.

I don't defy USA has a great contemporary culture but it's just one side of it. Another side is what you so easily dismiss - the history and traditions. Culture in the sense we're discussing is not something you can associate with one person. It's a collective term that basically describes the full range of learned human behavior patterns, which of course includes the baggage accumulated over the years (in some cases thousands of years) of history. Which USA doesn't have in the same degree as most of other countries, simply because it is a relatively young country.

Maybe I put too much stress on the traditional side of culture but coming myself from culturally very uniform background I always thought about USA as a multi-culture nation. Hence my surprise at pixie's statement. Shared media, history and education are basically common traits of every country (except for the ones that changed borders recently). Unity of values and the perception of the surrounding world may really be unique to America, though I'm not sure if putting Black people from Boston and immigrants from Asia and Mexico in the same bag as Rednecks from Florida is not an overgeneralization.

What you describe as a part of culture I see as a proof of multi-culturality. Can multi-culturality be a part of culture? I guess it depends on the definition. But I would argue that American culture is not uniform (of course many aspects are but I think most historically rich countries are much more uniform in that matter).

I admit it's kind of remarkable how everyone is religious in America. A bit less if you look at the crime rate (what happened to Thou shalt not kill?) but still. However I still stand by my previous statement - all the things you mention are not characteristic only to America. Maybe you can't appreciate it because it's a foreign culture to you but culture of many countries is just as uniform as American and often richer thanks to the hundreds of years of history. And wealth is hardly an American-only thing. As I mentioned, all these points together apply to Japan as well and many of them (not necessarily all at once) to other countries as well.

Re: Living outside America

#162
post #9

This is a great article, and as a European I can relate to all of his points. Here are some comments from the other side of the pond; they're of course my personal opinion but I think they're somewhat representative of the European view. I don’t view the USA as the center of the world - i see America as an overreaching empire that has had it's heyday. If you take a historical perspective this is how many empires fall…

> i see America as an overreaching empire that has had it's heyday And yet most of us are right now using computers designed in America, with an operating system written in America, posting on an American website. How is the USA not the centre of the world? From jeans to Katy Perry, from Google to McDonald's -- Americans totally dominated both the culture and the business. If I turn on the tv right now, I will have t…

> Why? Religious people commit less crime, get and stay married more, use less illegal drugs, donate and volunteer more... It would make more sense to fear people becoming less religious.

Are you just playing devils advocate (no pun intended)? Because there seems to be a rather large creationism, abstinence only sex education, and homophobia shaped blindspot in your view. There's plenty of ostesnibly legitimate stuff that religion does to damage society without needing to do anything outright illegal (but if you need illegal, then we need only look as far as systemic child abuse in the Catholic Church). I suspect that when the OP talks about being frightened, this is the kind of thing he's thinking of. Certainly this is some of the stuff that frightens me.

Of course this is not to say that religion is all bad. I know one couple, devout members of a Christian sect, lovely people and I have great respect for them. Why? Because they walk their talk and they don't feel a need to proselytize all within earshot, trying to force others to live by the same rules they do. I assume they must realise at some level that they have no right to make such a demand. I wish more religious people were like them.

Re: Living outside America

#163

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why? Religious people commit less crime, get and stay married more, use less illegal drugs, donate and volunteer more... It would make more sense to fear people becoming less religious. Source?

http://www.overcomingbias.com/2012/05/what-use-far-truth.htm... For crime see my comment below (or above, remains to be seen).

Research in the other direction:

http://www.atheismresource.com/2010/atheist-dont-commit-as-m...

http://moses.creighton.edu/JRS/2005/2005-11.pdf

http://seattle.cbslocal.com/2012/06/22/study-finds-people-wh...

http://www.plosone.org/article/info%3Adoi%2F10.1371%2Fjourna...

Re: Living outside America

#165
post #22

I've been able to do the first 3 without leaving (perhaps because I wasn't born here), and number 4 doesn't seem so certain. What I noticed about living outside America when I did it later as an adult was that it made it clearer what was distinctive about the US. Many of the distinctive things I noticed could be summed up by describing America as a young culture. Americans have the optimism and energy of youth, but t…

>Many of the distinctive things I noticed could be summed up by describing America as a young culture.

I felt the same way when visiting Australia for the first time. The sense of a "Pioneer Spirit" with a vast mostly unexplored territory seems to still be there. It was actually quite infectious.

Re: Living outside America

#166

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> i see America as an overreaching empire that has had it's heyday And yet most of us are right now using computers designed in America, with an operating system written in America, posting on an American website. How is the USA not the centre of the world? From jeans to Katy Perry, from Google to McDonald's -- Americans totally dominated both the culture and the business. If I turn on the tv right now, I will have t…

> Religious people commit less crime, get and stay married more, use less illegal drugs, donate and volunteer more... It would make more sense to fear people becoming less religious. Citation please. "A 2001 review of studies on this topic found "The existing evidence surrounding the effect of religion on crime is varied, contested, and inconclusive, and currently no persuasive answer exists as to the empirical relat…

Doubling in with additional information relevant to discussion: http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=4187478

Re: Living outside America

#167
post #154
post #124

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Historically, Europe was the center; it went from Rome to Paris to London to the US, at least for the past 2000 years. Center of population is somewhere near Afghanistan I think, but that's kind of a silly measure (like "the average person is 50% male"). US manufacturing production was #1 from 1895-2010. China is #1 now, but the US numbers are far more certain than China. If you look at total industrial base, the US…

The center of population is somewhere near the center of the Earth. The standard map with Europe in the middle is just an historical influence too!

Usually people just use the surface of the earth for this.

The funny thing is calculating it at high resolution would require classified data (the best measures of the exact shape of the earth are classified; they are used in ICBM flight path calculations, and deviation from an oblate spheroid is significant when you want to put something on a tennis court from the other side of the world. The exact distribution of mass (some concentrations of heavier materials) and magnetism (for MAD detection of submarines) are similar.

Re: Living outside America

#168
I've come to the same set of realizations and conclusions, but have never left the country. And I too am from Colorado. So I think it's the thought process that counts, the education, critical thinking, absorbing lots of information, etc. Not whether you've travelled enough or lived outside the US. I do agree that many Americans live inside a kind of bubble, one built out of a mixture of propaganda and intellectual laziness, perhaps, but a perceptual bubble all the same. The Republican party, for example, I think to a large extent helps to feed it and is in turn fed from it. But we don't really live in the world portrayed in that bubble. And it's going to increasingly bite Americans in the ass unless they wake up and make changes.

Re: Living outside America

#169
post #9

This is a great article, and as a European I can relate to all of his points. Here are some comments from the other side of the pond; they're of course my personal opinion but I think they're somewhat representative of the European view. I don’t view the USA as the center of the world - i see America as an overreaching empire that has had it's heyday. If you take a historical perspective this is how many empires fall…

If the USA was ever an overreaching empire, it was very reluctantly. OK, we picked some fights and managed to take a fair chunk of our own continent, but we were also isolationist to a fault until the mid-20th century. It was the Europeans who managed to rope us into both of their "world wars"--and in 1945, when you're looking at the whole of Europe spent and in ruins, and Joseph Stalin as the last dictator standing-…

Imagine an America that was a true Empire, in the Roman fashion. An America with the additional 51st state of Germany, 52nd of South Korea, 53rd of Cuba, 54th of the Philippines and 55th of Japan? Hell, why stop there? An American claim to France would have been just as strong as a Roman claim to Egypt (namely, America claims it, who disagrees?), let's seize Canada, stop paying for oil to the House of Saud, figure out what we're going to do with our territories of Iraq, Kuwait and Afghanistan. America isn't a true empire, but it has some flavors of one.

The U.S. is a weird sort of quasi-empire with military outposts and large economic interests all over the world, but in territories that aren't their own and with the notion that the countries we inhabit are not part of the U.S. in any way shape or form. Sort of like vassal states, but without all the "pay us your tribute or we'll invade and burn your cities down" that modern America is terribly uncomfortable with.

It's an interesting academic exercise to pick apart where the U.S. is and isn't like an Empire because it's not that simple.

Re: Living outside America

#170
post #82

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Rare to find actively religious young people on the West Coast (at least Bay Area / Portland)

In your social circles, at least.

There seems to be a strong tendency to assume that erveyone is like the speaker. It's especially funny when friends of mine mention something like that (everyone is non-religious everyone is super liberal) not yet realizing that I don't fit the bill :-) Stanford actually has very strong religious student groups.
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