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"Gangbang Interviews" and "Bikini Shots": Silicon Valley’s Brogrammer Problem

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Re: "Gangbang Interviews" and "Bikini Shots": Silicon Valley’s Brogrammer Problem

#161

Post by gawker »

anichan wrote: post #46
joejohnson wrote: post #7

Good, I'm glad people walked out of Van Horn's talk. That's the appropriate response to this sort of immature bullshit. This may sound extreme, but if you're surrounded by douche bags who make misogynistic jokes and weave rude and immature anecdotes into a work-related presentation, then these "brogrammers" must believe that this behavior is acceptable. And if you witness this, and laugh along (or even just ignore it…

See, but the problem is that women, particularly in startups, have to walk a fine line of not letting themselves be objectified and not being labeled a bitch. The article even mentions that there isn't really much of a robust HR policy at small start ups. When women in these situations make it clear that some behavior is not acceptable, they'll inevitably be met by "Woah don't be so serious, it's just a joke! Lighten…

I think this extends towards a lot of issues. The "Whoa, don't be so serious, it's just a joke" card gets played time and time again to hide people's insensitivity to others.

Re: "Gangbang Interviews" and "Bikini Shots": Silicon Valley’s Brogrammer Problem

#162

Post by chc »

Produce wrote: post #120
pharrington wrote: post #91

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"Gender has significant effects on brain chemistry." Quantify how sex affects the brain in specific ways that effect the likelihood of developing an interesting in programming and being an effective programmer. Until we can do this, essentially saying "physiology affects your organs" is a pretty empty statement.

That's like saying that until we can quantify how far Paris is from London, "Paris is far from London" is a pretty empty statement. Pretty sure that people understood that locations can be some distance away from each other before they could quantify exactly how much distance.

No, it's more like saying "Paris is some distance from London." Is it a significant distance from London? "Far" is more specific than "has an effect," in that it implies the distance is significant. In this case, though, we don't even know if the effect is on the area under discussion — it might not even be relevant — much less whether its magnitude is great enough to matter.

Re: "Gangbang Interviews" and "Bikini Shots": Silicon Valley’s Brogrammer Problem

#163

Post by vectorpush »

dipthegeezer wrote: post #27

Well you still have job adverts from big boys like twitter saying 'responsible enjoyment of beer' as a prerequisite. https://twitter.com/jobs/positions?jvi=ooE7VfwO,Job If that's not appealing to the frat boy crowd then I don't know what is. Not to mention the fact that a lot of people don't actually drink ( I know hard to believe! ), or have a life that doesn't involve drinking all the time. As someone who's been th…

What is sexist about 'responsible enjoyment of beer'? For the record, I agree that sexism is a huge problem in tech but plenty of women enjoy beer and it's pretty ridiculous to suggest that any mention of beer is an automatic appeal to men.

Re: "Gangbang Interviews" and "Bikini Shots": Silicon Valley’s Brogrammer Problem

#164

Post by MBlume »

batista wrote: post #78
Lewisham wrote: post #15

What I find particularly disconcerting about this Van Horn story is not that he wanted to present it (which is terrible in and of itself), but that this guy is 28, went through Digg (who never struck me as a company of idiots), already presented a sexist presentation, and still appears at SXSW either by invitation of him or Path. Why would Path or SXSW allow it? Did he not practice this presentation at Path before he…

>What I find particularly disconcerting about this Van Horn story is not that it happened (which is terrible in and of itself), but that this guy is 28, went through Digg (who never struck me as a company of idiots), already presented a sexist presentation, and still appears at SXSW either by invitation of him or Path. Why would Path or SXSW allow it? Did he not practice this presentation at Path before heading out?…

I know you're trying to be sarcastic, but yes, please, let's ostracize him. Our culture will be better off without him. Sometimes not pissing in the pool isn't enough, sometimes asking people nicely to stop isn't enough, sometimes you have to force people out of the pool if you want to swim somewhere that doesn't have piss in it.

Re: "Gangbang Interviews" and "Bikini Shots": Silicon Valley’s Brogrammer Problem

#165

Post by dageshi »

Startup = Punk Band.

The worse they behave the more publicity they will get, the more people will know about their product. Plus the Techcrunch/Pando Daily's/Motherjones... of this world need something to talk about.

Ladies and Gentlemen welcome to the age of the Punk Startup.

Re: "Gangbang Interviews" and "Bikini Shots": Silicon Valley’s Brogrammer Problem

#166

Post by ojbyrne »

Lewisham wrote: post #15

What I find particularly disconcerting about this Van Horn story is not that he wanted to present it (which is terrible in and of itself), but that this guy is 28, went through Digg (who never struck me as a company of idiots), already presented a sexist presentation, and still appears at SXSW either by invitation of him or Path. Why would Path or SXSW allow it? Did he not practice this presentation at Path before he…

Matt arrived at digg in 2007 if I recall correctly. At that point the culture was being reshaped into what is described in the article. Also lots of women were hired - young, attractive women.

And we all know how that worked out.

The reason why this culture persists is because people are rewarded for promulgating it. Matt is a VP at Path.

Re: "Gangbang Interviews" and "Bikini Shots": Silicon Valley’s Brogrammer Problem

#167

Post by _delirium »

christkv wrote: post #95
joejohnson wrote: post #7

Good, I'm glad people walked out of Van Horn's talk. That's the appropriate response to this sort of immature bullshit. This may sound extreme, but if you're surrounded by douche bags who make misogynistic jokes and weave rude and immature anecdotes into a work-related presentation, then these "brogrammers" must believe that this behavior is acceptable. And if you witness this, and laugh along (or even just ignore it…

I think if you even go to a presentation called "Adding Value as a Non-Technical No Talent Ass-Clown." you've got yourself to blame when it turns out to be an ass-clown speaking out off his ass.

I can see that in retrospect, but if you don't know anything about the person ahead of time, it's possible that a talk with that title could turn out to be a serious talk that just starts from a self-deprecating hook. It's a clear Office Space reference I think, so I would've taken it to be a non-technical management type person admitting there's a large scope for Office-Space-style failure in their role, and then segueing into how they managed to avoid that and actually add value.

Re: "Gangbang Interviews" and "Bikini Shots": Silicon Valley’s Brogrammer Problem

#168

Post by mrgn »

wunderland wrote: post #66
anichan wrote: post #46

Earlier quoted context omitted.

See, but the problem is that women, particularly in startups, have to walk a fine line of not letting themselves be objectified and not being labeled a bitch. The article even mentions that there isn't really much of a robust HR policy at small start ups. When women in these situations make it clear that some behavior is not acceptable, they'll inevitably be met by "Woah don't be so serious, it's just a joke! Lighten…

I completely agree. I don't want to say that women need a man to stand up for themselves, but like you said, women have to walk a fine line. If everybody who sees this crap blatantly calls it out, it will wake it easier for anybody (man or woman) to stand up against this.

completely agree with you and anichan.

Re: "Gangbang Interviews" and "Bikini Shots": Silicon Valley’s Brogrammer Problem

#169

Post by MartinCron »

slantyyz wrote: post #139

Being a little too old to be a brogrammer (heck, I still remember when the notion of casual workdays was a novelty), I have a simple rule that I follow: "If you're on the clock, act like it." That typically means no inappropriate jokes/comments or profanity in workplace communications (email, conversation, slide decks, etc.), dressing appropriately (i.e., casual at work, but not too casual, dressing up for meeting wi…

I feel the same way, and have instructed people to "be as edgy and offensive as you want on your own time".

This isn't really a culture/society thing. This is a workplace/professionalism thing.

Re: "Gangbang Interviews" and "Bikini Shots": Silicon Valley’s Brogrammer Problem

#170

Post by jsavimbi »

theorique wrote: post #28
jsavimbi wrote: post #20

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> The brogrammer meme is JUST A JOKE! No, it's an inside joke. There's a big difference there.

There's a certain irony and distance about it, though. My read of the brogrammer meme is laughing at the concept that frat boys and meathead "bros" can write code. It's often manifested as smart guys concealing their brains in a fog of conscious, ironic boneheadedness. The problem is when it crosses the line and becomes a fad to follow, or actually alienating to women in the profession.

> laughing at the concept that frat boys and meathead "bros" can write code.

More of a reality than a concept.

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