How to cope with the Gmail redesign • Hacker News Board

Re: How to cope with the Gmail redesign

#161

Post by DougBTX » Mon, Apr 23, 2012, 12:14 AM UTC

jaredsohn wrote: post #71

taeric wrote: post #69

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm not sure I follow. I don't avoid it. They just happened to have not changed the way I interact with it. I confess I did find my old theme a little more pleasant to deal with, but I'm already at the point where I don't remember it anymore. I'm curious what "important buttons" you are referring to. I'm also curious how folks that get this worked up over their email client don't go into shock when they get a new car…

When you get a new car, that's because of a choice you are making or a consequence of your actions (such as if the previous one was totaled.) When a website that a person frequents which "seems to work fine the way it is" changes, people get worked up because they see the change as unnecessary. Similarly, if you are a developer, you might feel the same way if the company you work at randomly decides to switch bug tra…

I wonder if the anger could be redirected by the realisation that if they were running their own client software, they would be in control of the interface. To realise the dream of free software. But I suspect most of the "rage" will blow over in fifteen minutes.

Re: How to cope with the Gmail redesign

#162

Post by snowwrestler » Mon, Apr 23, 2012, 12:55 AM UTC

kennethcwilbur wrote: post #138

I have never been so frustrated with a UI redesign as I have been with Gmail and Analytics. Unfortunately, I was already using all of the settings pointed out in this post, and I still can't get comfortable with the new design. I can't separate how much of that frustration comes from the large degree of change and how much comes from my long history of use, but the frustration is huge. I know that many Google employe…

I really didn't like the new Analytics interface when they first rolled out the optional beta. I switched a few months ago to gain access to real-time measuring, and now I love it. For me at least, it just took some time to adjust.

Re: How to cope with the Gmail redesign

#163

Post by 23david » Mon, Apr 23, 2012, 1:37 AM UTC

smutticus wrote: post #114

eternalban wrote: post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Try http://mail.google.com/mail/?ui=html

Thank you, thank you, thank you...

agreed. for those of us who feel that gmail is a necessary evil this definitely helps ease the pain. I just wish I could pay for a commercial service or install a server-side app that had similar functionality.

the default settings in the new gmail design are really bad. at least the gmail team should have some kind of migration wizard that allows users to easily figure out to configure the settings to make the new design work as well as possible for them.

thanks again for the guide!

Re: How to cope with the Gmail redesign

#164

Post by jacoblyles » Mon, Apr 23, 2012, 2:25 AM UTC

pg wrote: post #88

This article made me finally bite the bullet and convert. I've been using the new design for the last several hours. I happen to have a window open with the old design, so I know it's not merely my imagination that the new one is worse. Not enormously so, but definitely worse. Read mails are more legible in the old version, because there is more contrast between black letters and the old light blue background than be…

In the new design, controls are links instead of buttons. It's harder to find them, as they stand out less.

Also, I miss the use of colors to delineate between elements of a different kind. In the new version, they only use light and dark.

Re: How to cope with the Gmail redesign

#165

Post by adgar » Mon, Apr 23, 2012, 4:16 AM UTC

gleb wrote: post #158

potatolicious wrote: post #149

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There's nothing intrinsically wrong with designer-first UI. After all, none of the points pg pointed out are engineering related. The problem here is that there is still a confusion between graphics designers and interaction designers. A lot of companies let the former do the job of the latter, and it shows.

What I am saying is that new Google design is not a pathology of a large company, but a result of a single executive decision. Before red primary buttons would have failed testing. Now this testing is simply not done. New way is faster. An intriguing possibility is that Larry knows they are producing garbage, but thinks it will work out long term, like Android.

You seem to have an intimate knowledge of the inner workings of Google's product design, well beyond that of an average software engineer at Google like myself. I'm curious how you came to be in possession of such insight, since it apparently surpasses my own as a lowly Google employee.

Re: How to cope with the Gmail redesign

#166

Post by joelthelion » Mon, Apr 23, 2012, 8:46 AM UTC

Rage wrote: post #129

joelthelion wrote: post #126

Using a web-service and raging when it gets redesigned or closed is pretty stupid. People who don't like when other people decide for them should use real email clients with a standard protocol such as IMAP.

bot sure if i follow you here, gmail uses IMAP, i never read my mails on the website, always in Mail (or sparrow, on osx)

Yes, of course, you can do that as well. As long as you don't depend on their server-side UI, you're not subject to unwanted UI changes.

Re: How to cope with the Gmail redesign

#167

Post by EvilTerran » Mon, Apr 23, 2012, 3:49 PM UTC

twelvechairs wrote: post #121

EvilTerran wrote: post #111

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Then what did you say? andrewfelix was prompting you to elaborate. Just replying "that's not what I said" is completely unproductive - this is meant to be a conversation, not a game of twenty questions. We shouldn't have to guess at your meaning.

Sorry. I thought about this, but it seemed obvious to me. Maybe it isn't. I'll give it a try. Of course past performance of a product is a factor worth considering in determining the future success of someone in any field. However if you really want to excel at this field, past performance is not likely to be the _primary_ factor (though it could be a smaller factor) in how you 'validate' future worth. For instance,…

With you now. I'd guessed that was what you meant, but wasn't sure.

... incidentally, I still find it strangely novel when disagreements on HN don't turn into Internet Arguments. Makes such a refreshing change from, well, the rest of the web. :)

Re: How to cope with the Gmail redesign

#168

Post by mattmanser » Wed, Apr 25, 2012, 1:37 PM UTC

AVTizzle wrote: post #61

mattmanser wrote: post #57

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Growth? Gmail grew 3 or 4 years ago. I wouldn't recommend Gmail to anyone now, it's just another Hotmail type service, there's nothing special or good about Gmail anymore. What really surprised me is how few of my friends get the 'conversation' view even in 2012. After too many awkward conversations and now their 'we've got absolutely no design skills and can't design for shit' redesign, I'm just shrugging when peopl…

I've been using gmail pretty exclusively for the past 4 years now, and haven't really had to much exposure to other services. But I've been extremely satisfied. Enough to stick around. So just out of curiosity - what services would you recommend to an inquiring mind?

I use GMail myself extensively, but I can't say I'm happy with it any more. The new redesign brought the general feeling of dissatisfaction to a head.

Re: How to cope with the Gmail redesign

#169

Post by ditojim » Wed, Apr 25, 2012, 2:32 PM UTC

tjoff wrote: post #157

andrewfelix wrote: post #109

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>I can't for the life of me understand why anyone would chose gmail over any native application for mail I can't speak for the 350M other people using Gmail. But here's why I use Gmail(some of these aren't exclusively Gmail): - Conversation View - Calendar Integration - Very good Labelling/Grouping system - Online Storage - Browser access - Very Powerful and effecient Search - Great filter system - Autosaves unfinish…

I'm not arguing that gmail isn't good at what it does. But it is at an inherent (huge) disadvantage of being executed in the browser. Just some comments. Thunderbird became dramatically better at searching a couple of years(?) ago. I frequently feel limited by search in gmail, I've assumed that there are advanced features lurking around somwhere but the UX is so bad I just don't. I don't see how storage can be a prob…

if you are limited by search in gmail, you are doing it wrong. you are saying gmail is inferior to thunderbird for search? over google? c'mon. you also take issue with apps running in the browser, which is counter-culture. you are refusing to accept that there are specific advantages to the additional functionality we have gained in the browser, while claiming your machine is more secure than Google's data centers. sorry but you're not making a sound argument.

Re: How to cope with the Gmail redesign

#170

Post by tjoff » Sat, Apr 28, 2012, 9:55 AM UTC

ditojim wrote: post #169

tjoff wrote: post #157

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm not arguing that gmail isn't good at what it does. But it is at an inherent (huge) disadvantage of being executed in the browser. Just some comments. Thunderbird became dramatically better at searching a couple of years(?) ago. I frequently feel limited by search in gmail, I've assumed that there are advanced features lurking around somwhere but the UX is so bad I just don't. I don't see how storage can be a prob…

if you are limited by search in gmail, you are doing it wrong. you are saying gmail is inferior to thunderbird for search? over google? c'mon. you also take issue with apps running in the browser, which is counter-culture. you are refusing to accept that there are specific advantages to the additional functionality we have gained in the browser, while claiming your machine is more secure than Google's data centers. s…

Read in what context I said that gmail search is inferior to thunderbird for search. But yes, how do you, without googling it up, search for a message in gmail from address x, sometime in the year of 2010, where the subject began with y and the content contained z.

Counter-culture? Few would argue that native apps doesn't have advantages over browser apps. The best you could say about a browser app is that it is "good enough". But obviously they suffer greatly from being in the browser just because all workstation operating systems are centered around native apps and not apps within the browser.

Which means that I can click on my mail-application in the taskbar/whatever but whereas in a browser I have to navigate through all my browser windows to find the one with mail in it, which doesn't even have to be in it's own window but hidden somewhere with lots of other tabs.

Again, I never said that my machine is more secure than googles data center servers. But any native application has security advantages over something run in the browser (and potentially drawbacks as well, but the inherent issue with being logged in on a web app doesn't exist in a native application).