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Report Phone Spam – Shut down robocallers and text spammers

reportphonespam.org

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Re: Report Phone Spam – Shut down robocallers and text spammers

#161

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I disagree with the posted page that the telecoms are interested in stopping spam. If they really cared, they would have addressed it by now. I suspect they are somehow making money from the spam callers.

Carriers could solve the spam problem overnight by disconnecting about 3 or 4 countries from the rest of the world. However popular that action may be, it would not be legal.

ya but now they are the racist carrier. racism hunts. witch hunts. in the far future these 2 events will look no different

Re: Report Phone Spam – Shut down robocallers and text spammers

#162
post #81

I've been reporting spam calls and texts to the FCC for a few years now. Does it do anything? I don't know, certainly not immediately, and the problem persists. I tried the method spelled out here for my latest batch of "Your USPS package has arrived" texts, but the phone numbers (example: +63 936 631 6676) just give an "invalid number" response. Not unexpected. Every official channel seems to be failing us on this o…

I disagree with the posted page that the telecoms are interested in stopping spam. If they really cared, they would have addressed it by now. I suspect they are somehow making money from the spam callers.

(This is a US-based response response about the US phone system.)

Because it's a political problem, not an engineering or business problem.

In order to prevent monopolies, we have very strict requirements about carrying all calls that enter the network. Otherwise, phone companies would randomly block each other as part of anti-competitive tactics to push each other out of business.

The telephone spammers take advantage of these laws, because it is very difficult to legally block a spam call. Your phone provider must carry all phone calls without any prejudice!

(So I'm about to get very close to the line about hacker news's "no politics" guideline. Please consider that spammers "hack the law" and "hack politics" before you flag me. Instead, I would appreciate it if you take a minute or two to fact check my opinion disguised as fact.)

The primary way out of this is by a legal change, not by an engineering change or culture change: We must update our laws so that it is very difficult to make and carry spam calls on the telephone network.

I personally believe that one way to do this is to require that all phone calls provide rich metadata to the phone that is ringing. I really should know who is calling me, and the phone company that originates that call should be responsible for verifying it. I would even consider a requirement that makes it trivial, or automatic, to "lift the corporate veil" on who owns the company that is calling me. Otherwise there should be strict penalties for a phone network that allows originating calls with phony or spoofed metadata.

(I also don't think anyone has a right to make a 100% anonymous phone call. I think we can figure out how to allow people who need to make anonymous phone calls to make them, without exposing the entire phone network to SPAM.)

Ultimately, every phone call that enters the phone network needs to have a strict and auditable chain of liability.

In reality, if our laws included a requirement for strict metadata, and then a requirement to make an "abusive phone call" button really obvious, we could figure this out pretty quickly: at this point it becomes a simple reputation system.

Finally, we need laws that prohibit co-opting the phone network for marketing. We may want to start with prohibiting unsolicited commercial and political calls. We need to make sure that there are no loopholes, where the company you bought something from 2 years ago is still free to call you as if you have an ongoing relationship. We need to recognize that pulling out one's phone and looking at who is calling is really a significant burden to us, and that our government should protect us from companies and politicians who think that they have the right to interrupt our day at any moment to listen to a sales pitch.

If you really care and want to put time into this, advocate politically. (And remember that hacker news is not supposed to be political.) Don't waste your time reading instructions about how to report spam.

Re: Report Phone Spam – Shut down robocallers and text spammers

#163
post #81

I've been reporting spam calls and texts to the FCC for a few years now. Does it do anything? I don't know, certainly not immediately, and the problem persists. I tried the method spelled out here for my latest batch of "Your USPS package has arrived" texts, but the phone numbers (example: +63 936 631 6676) just give an "invalid number" response. Not unexpected. Every official channel seems to be failing us on this o…

I disagree with the posted page that the telecoms are interested in stopping spam. If they really cared, they would have addressed it by now. I suspect they are somehow making money from the spam callers.

All the responses to this post have been an amusing read. Apparently this forum is too young to remember all the Guyana phone sex scam numbers from the 80s and 90s…

Re: Report Phone Spam – Shut down robocallers and text spammers

#164

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I disagree with the posted page that the telecoms are interested in stopping spam. If they really cared, they would have addressed it by now. I suspect they are somehow making money from the spam callers.

I think you underestimate how ineptly run a lot of these highly-regulated, legacy industries actually are. They care, but in the way most people care about not being fat. They still can’t make the necessary lifestyle changes to do anything about it even if it is their most ardent wish.

[flagged]

Re: Report Phone Spam – Shut down robocallers and text spammers

#165
post #89

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Because contrary to the page, they don't really care about the spam that much. Now, if more people started calling the support for every spam they get... that would translate to some real cost.

Who would bear that cost though? My prediction would be the customers again, because they would make the phone support harder to reach than it already is as a "solution" to the increased demand for phone support.

Partially yes, longer support waits. But there's a threshold where the agents either need to be available or the reviews / opinions about a telco go too low, so it can't be just ignored.

I just don't have sympathy though - ideally people would DoS all the telco and local government lines until the issue is fixed. It's just stupid how many years this exists without obvious solutions.

Re: Report Phone Spam – Shut down robocallers and text spammers

#166
post #81

I've been reporting spam calls and texts to the FCC for a few years now. Does it do anything? I don't know, certainly not immediately, and the problem persists. I tried the method spelled out here for my latest batch of "Your USPS package has arrived" texts, but the phone numbers (example: +63 936 631 6676) just give an "invalid number" response. Not unexpected. Every official channel seems to be failing us on this o…

> USPS package texts Try reporting it directly to the US Postal Inspector. From: https://www.uspis.gov/news/scam-article/smishing-package-tra... > Have you received unsolicited mobile text messages with an unfamiliar or strange web link that indicates a USPS delivery requires a response from you? If you never signed up for a USPS tracking request for a specific package, then don’t click the link! This type of text me…

lol. They will do absolutely nothing.

Re: Report Phone Spam – Shut down robocallers and text spammers

#167

Earlier quoted context omitted.

E-commerce predates opening The Internet for commercial entities. In 1988 or 89 I ordered some Unix book, maybe the 4.3BSD daemon book, via email that I got from Nyx, which was a dialup Usenet server at University of Denver. Sent a credit card number over SMTP email.

I remember "buying" something online and having to physically mail a check with the order # on the info line.

Been there, done that. Also sent a credit card number split across two emails “for security.”

Re: Report Phone Spam – Shut down robocallers and text spammers

#168
Years ago, I switched my home "land line" to a VOIP service provider. This provider allows you to build a simple set of actions which will occur when a call comes in.

Mine works like this:

    Is the call from a fax machine? 
        If yes, take the fax and send the fax to my e-mail.
        If no, move to the next step.
    Is the call from a number that's on my whitelist?
        If yes, ring my phone.
        If no, move to the next step.
    Play a recording of my voice saying, "Please press 5 to be connected."
    Keep repeating this recording for 30 seconds.
        If the caller presses 5, ring my phone.
        If 30 seconds elapse and 5 is not pressed, hang up.
No more robo-calls for me. Zero. Gone. I check the logs and I'm still receiving many calls a day from random numbers, but none makes it through the test.

I know that if everyone did this, scammers would figure out a way around it, but for the last 7 years, it's completely solved my problem.

Re: Report Phone Spam – Shut down robocallers and text spammers

#169

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> telecoms are interested in stopping spam. If they really cared, they would have addressed it by now I'm not so sure about this. No one (except for, obviously, spammers) benefits from email spam, every mailhost and network admin is most certainly interested in stopping it (to some extent), and yet my mailbox can prove that spam is still very much alive. Solving spam problems in a highly distributed large federation…

When you consider that most of this stuff originates from places outside of jurisdictions of any place that would ever consider doing something about it, you realize that legislation is worth much less than the paper it's never printed on.

It's that time I get to repeat: The US is a big enough destination that threatening to drop incoming calls would work. Much like the EU online privacy regulations has international effects, the US can play the game too. It's extremely unlikely that a legit telco anywhere in the world would choose to continue spam and lose the ability to call the US. (Telcos peer to other telcos/interconnects explicitly and can force custom agreements)

Re: Report Phone Spam – Shut down robocallers and text spammers

#170
post #89

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Because contrary to the page, they don't really care about the spam that much. Now, if more people started calling the support for every spam they get... that would translate to some real cost.

Who would bear that cost though? My prediction would be the customers again, because they would make the phone support harder to reach than it already is as a "solution" to the increased demand for phone support.

Now if someone were to make one of those pizza ordering LLM agents do the calling for them...

I suppose that would be like spamming the carriers. Not sure that's better, but it might make them act.

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