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Spain lives in flats: why we have built our cities vertically

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Re: Spain lives in flats: why we have built our cities vertically

#161

Post by dotcoma »

VancouverMan wrote: post #55
dotcoma wrote: post #18

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes, but they got many things right in the Netherlands even with an incredibly low percentage of people living in flats. Bikes, not cars, please.

The feasibility of widespread bike usage doesn't just depend on density. It depends a lot on a region's weather, too. Amsterdam, for example, happens to have weather that's relatively compatible with biking, all throughout the year. On the other hand, for four to six months of the year, most areas of Canada, and even a good portion of the US, definitely don't. While a very small handful of people can handle biking wh…

Calling Amsterdam an ideal city for cycling is a stretch. It's coldish, it rains quite a lot and it's very windy.

Things would be a lot easier for people on bikes here in Milan, Italy where I live... except that they are not.

It's not so safe during rush hour, and it's full of people who would rather take their stupid car instead of walking half a mile.

Distances are larger in North America, but climate-wise people cycle more in NYC or in Minneapolis than they do in Atlanta or in Dallas.

To sum it up: make cycling as safe as possible, and discourage car use, and especially car abuse -- picking up kids from school with an SUV, for example.

Re: Spain lives in flats: why we have built our cities vertically

#162

Post by 2-718-281-828 »

avgcorrection wrote: post #156
2-718-281-828 wrote: post #142

Earlier quoted context omitted.

you don't like old folks?

Contemporary societal culture is biased against old folks—little respect, not valued for their wisdom and experience—but the problem with more older people is higher costs for retirement, healthcare, and a smaller pool of tax payers.

i'm sure the oldies will figure something out and it can be assumed that societal culture will shift in their favor if demographics change towards them.

Re: Spain lives in flats: why we have built our cities vertically

#163

Post by anotherhue »

mathieuh wrote: post #39
flagged24 wrote: post #15

I'm okay with these high rises so I can enjoy the quiet tranquility of rural Spain. Everytime we do stay in an apartment in Spain the lack of sound proofing really stands out. Perhaps even more so because everything is tiled, no carpets.

I live in northern ireland in an actual house and the walls are thin enough I could dip my bread into my neighbours' soup. It is the number one reason I could never see myself living in an apartment, I'm very sensitive to noise and I get disproportionately angry at even low levels of unwanted noise. I'd be too worried about noise from neighbours.

Had that in Dublin, moved to NYC in a modern building in the freaking centre of the city and it's remarkably quiet.

Shitty construction hurts.

Re: Spain lives in flats: why we have built our cities vertically

#164

Post by cies »

analognoise wrote: post #147
Lord-Jobo wrote: post #129

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is slightly aside, but the concerns over fertility rates in the first world really seem REALLY misplaced to me. Population growth concerns are easily mitigated with immigration which will stay in demand until the rest of the worlds fertility rates catch up(40+ years), and the population growth concerns themselves are a reflection of an outdated (or soon to be outdated) economic model that we should probably focu…

“We made it terrible for our own people to make families, but don’t worry! We can keep the party going by importing loads of people due to economic forces!” Sounds so incredibly shitty. If an economic system works so poorly for people they have to be imported (I.e. locals who want to form families can’t) it should be dismantled. I care about “global capital” far less than I care about my compatriots ability to form s…

> If an economic system works so poorly for people they have to be imported

Interesting thought. The notion that GDPpopulation has to grow comes comes from that economic system. The problem is that the economic system dictates policy to such a large extend that democracy is a farce.

> I care about “global capital” far less than I care about my compatriots ability to form strong families.

+1

> We should absolutely be worried by terrible birth rates.

Why? What's the daily life/ human problem with becoming less humans? (I know the economic GDPpopulation reason, and I know why militarily that IS very important)

Re: Spain lives in flats: why we have built our cities vertically

#165

Post by mkaic »

Joeri wrote: post #155
Lord-Jobo wrote: post #129

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is slightly aside, but the concerns over fertility rates in the first world really seem REALLY misplaced to me. Population growth concerns are easily mitigated with immigration which will stay in demand until the rest of the worlds fertility rates catch up(40+ years), and the population growth concerns themselves are a reflection of an outdated (or soon to be outdated) economic model that we should probably focu…

I agree that immigration is a quick fix for a low fertility rate. But the people worrying about fertility rates fear cultural displacement by immigrants. They want less immigration, not more, and instead see a return to family values as the answer to the fertility rate problem. Anyway, the problem is not the current decline in population, it is a fertility rate that remains far below a replacement rate. That means th…

I want more immigration AND more fertility, personally.

Re: Spain lives in flats: why we have built our cities vertically

#166

Post by cies »

avgcorrection wrote: post #156
2-718-281-828 wrote: post #142

Earlier quoted context omitted.

you don't like old folks?

Contemporary societal culture is biased against old folks—little respect, not valued for their wisdom and experience—but the problem with more older people is higher costs for retirement, healthcare, and a smaller pool of tax payers.

Where I live I feel old folks make the rules, and make 'm well for their home-owning, investment portfolio having, pension fund living, selves.

Look in the US? Pressie is near senile, senate is full grey. Not all countries are this bad, but where I live it's similar.

But culturally oldies need more respect?

Re: Spain lives in flats: why we have built our cities vertically

#167

Post by kubb »

Lord-Jobo wrote: post #129
treis wrote: post #97

Spain also has the lowest fertility rate in Europe at 1.28. Not sure how much apartment living is cause or effect on that but it's a grim number. Every generation is only 60% the size of the one that came before it.

This is slightly aside, but the concerns over fertility rates in the first world really seem REALLY misplaced to me. Population growth concerns are easily mitigated with immigration which will stay in demand until the rest of the worlds fertility rates catch up(40+ years), and the population growth concerns themselves are a reflection of an outdated (or soon to be outdated) economic model that we should probably focu…

It’s ideology. People living in religious communities often worship fertility, and try to make breeding as widespread as possible. Blood based nationalism is obsessed with the “race” (unscientific term) not dying out. For both, having children and raising them in the same ideology is crucial for preserving their existence.

For the global liberal capitalism, the only way it can maintain its egalitarian promise is for it to rely on infinite growth. You can promise to the exploited that they will have even more people to exploit in the future if they keep their head down and stick with the status quo for long enough. It’s starting to hit external limits given by the environment, and available space only recently.

Meanwhile, some societies are aging and doing fine. The economy can be fine tuned to prioritize basic needs, and sustainably supply the people regardless of their age. For example automation in agriculture means that we’ll need less and less people to produce food. UBI is just one tool that could be useful here.

Re: Spain lives in flats: why we have built our cities vertically

#168

Post by hzay »

mathieuh wrote: post #39
flagged24 wrote: post #15

I'm okay with these high rises so I can enjoy the quiet tranquility of rural Spain. Everytime we do stay in an apartment in Spain the lack of sound proofing really stands out. Perhaps even more so because everything is tiled, no carpets.

I live in northern ireland in an actual house and the walls are thin enough I could dip my bread into my neighbours' soup. It is the number one reason I could never see myself living in an apartment, I'm very sensitive to noise and I get disproportionately angry at even low levels of unwanted noise. I'd be too worried about noise from neighbours.

> I get disproportionately angry at even low levels of unwanted noise.

I also suffer from this problem. Is there a name for this?

Re: Spain lives in flats: why we have built our cities vertically

#169

Post by pb7 »

avgcorrection wrote: post #156
2-718-281-828 wrote: post #142

Earlier quoted context omitted.

you don't like old folks?

Contemporary societal culture is biased against old folks—little respect, not valued for their wisdom and experience—but the problem with more older people is higher costs for retirement, healthcare, and a smaller pool of tax payers.

Your mistake is thinking that with age automatically comes wisdom. Most old people have no more wisdom to offer than they did when they were young.

Re: Spain lives in flats: why we have built our cities vertically

#170

Post by avgcorrection »

pb7 wrote: post #169
avgcorrection wrote: post #156

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Contemporary societal culture is biased against old folks—little respect, not valued for their wisdom and experience—but the problem with more older people is higher costs for retirement, healthcare, and a smaller pool of tax payers.

Your mistake is thinking that with age automatically comes wisdom. Most old people have no more wisdom to offer than they did when they were young.

Maybe. Or maybe you’re proving my point.
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