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Spain lives in flats: why we have built our cities vertically

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Re: Spain lives in flats: why we have built our cities vertically

#91

Post by xivzgrev »

mathieuh wrote: post #39
flagged24 wrote: post #15

I'm okay with these high rises so I can enjoy the quiet tranquility of rural Spain. Everytime we do stay in an apartment in Spain the lack of sound proofing really stands out. Perhaps even more so because everything is tiled, no carpets.

I live in northern ireland in an actual house and the walls are thin enough I could dip my bread into my neighbours' soup. It is the number one reason I could never see myself living in an apartment, I'm very sensitive to noise and I get disproportionately angry at even low levels of unwanted noise. I'd be too worried about noise from neighbours.

Me too! Do you ever hear music from neighbors that goes on for hours? But the problem is, it’s not so loud that they’re having a party and you can complain. No, it’s just loud enough to hear, but not loud enough to record or for others to easily hear.

I had one set of neighbors who fell into this range for about a year. I suspect their place was sparse, I could even hear them push their chair out from dining table. I felt happy when they moved out!

Re: Spain lives in flats: why we have built our cities vertically

#92

Post by cracrecry »

bertil wrote: post #34
coldcode wrote: post #7

Great analysis. I wonder if Spanish town planners have different powers than we do in the US. Town layouts are generally historical, you get to today by the sum of decisions potentially made decades or centuries or even millennia ago. It's very difficult to change a town layout drastically.

Powers are comparable, but people’s expectations are dramatically different for many reasons: * Climate: a shaded courtyard is pretty much necessary given the weather, for instance; * History: not only most city centers in Spain were built in the Middle Ages, but they were also built in the Arabic tradition of having fountains, slated blinds; * Economic: Spain grew economically a bit later than the US and the rest of…

>Spaniards want to be outside, but not in a sea of green grass. They much prefer a table in the shade.

If you want to talk about Spain, you need to live in Spain ALL YEAR long, not just the summer.

Almost the entire country but the north(in the north it rains in summer) is arid in Summer, because of the Azores' anticyclone, three or two months, depending on the place, but the rest of the year it rains.

Also the arid place is Murcia and Almería, some part of Alicante and Monegros. There is a lot of rain in Extremadura, or places near the Ocean, like Galicia, Asturias, Pirineos, Huelva.

In august you are going to see anything yellow, but it gets green in Autumn, Winter and Spring.

That is, 9 to 10 months a year it rains. There is sun too and it is a good thing because it is cold, specially inside. Madrid is very sunny and cold in Winter so the sun is great.

I was born in Spain, I live and work in Central Europe but I go to Spain in the Winter as it is a much better Winter there. In Central Europe anything is burned by the cold and then you have snow everywhere.

So it is actually much more green Spain in Winter than in most of Europe.

Re: Spain lives in flats: why we have built our cities vertically

#93

Post by LegitShady »

bedobi wrote: post #20
flagged24 wrote: post #15

I'm okay with these high rises so I can enjoy the quiet tranquility of rural Spain. Everytime we do stay in an apartment in Spain the lack of sound proofing really stands out. Perhaps even more so because everything is tiled, no carpets.

was gonna comment the same :melting face: I'm an armchair urbanist and all about density, and in well built buildings it's fine, even with tiled floors you can't really hear your neighbors but in Spain it's as if the buildings are built with zero soundproofing - you hear every single neighbor in the whole building and their tvs, radios, conversations, footsteps... it's maddening, I don't understand it

>it's maddening, I don't understand it

Costs less to build, sells for the same money, more profit made.

Re: Spain lives in flats: why we have built our cities vertically

#94

Post by whalesalad »

mupuff1234 wrote: post #84
whalesalad wrote: post #3

Different strokes for different folks. I’m a very happy single family home dweller. Living in a dense city feels claustrophobic.

Have you ever lived in a city? There's also a pretty big variance between a European city for example which usually doesn't have very tall high rises, and living in midtown Manhattan.

Yep - SF and Honolulu were frustrating places to live. Waiting for elevators. Shared laundry spaces. No privacy. Noisy neighbors. Noisy parking garages. Noisy street traffic.

I spent 6 months in Sweden and have traveled to a handful of other European countries.

The quiet suburban/rural life is for me. After growing up in LA, bouncing around SF, DC and HNL I have settled in Michigan and really enjoy it here. Plenty of room, not very congested, progressive policies. Life is good (albeit sometimes very cold)

Re: Spain lives in flats: why we have built our cities vertically

#95

Post by user_7832 »

Vinnl wrote: post #72

What's interesting is that the Netherlands is pretty low on the list of countries with the highest percentage of people in collective dwellings (at 21% vs Spain's 65%, only the UK is lower), even though it's one of the most densely populated countries in Europe. I suppose that's the result of the mentioned "mushroom neighbourhoods"? Great visuals btw.

From what I’ve seen while cycling between cities in the Netherlands, the “rural” areas still have houses frequently (and even more in “urban” areas - for example between The Hague and Rotterdam you probably won’t be able to go 500m without finding a house/building).

However, the density of most cities isn’t that high (most/median residential buildings are probably 4-5 floors or less, except Rotterdam). For comparison Mumbai has way more taller buildings than almost any city in the Netherlands except for Rotterdam, and Mumbai hasn’t had a lot of high rises due to FSI limitations.

Re: Spain lives in flats: why we have built our cities vertically

#98

Post by J_Shelby_J »

matsemann wrote: post #52
mathieuh wrote: post #39

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I live in northern ireland in an actual house and the walls are thin enough I could dip my bread into my neighbours' soup. It is the number one reason I could never see myself living in an apartment, I'm very sensitive to noise and I get disproportionately angry at even low levels of unwanted noise. I'd be too worried about noise from neighbours.

I live in a modern apartment in Norway (2019). I guess some of our heat insulation demands make it so that we get extra thick walls and floors, but I've never heard any noise from neighbors. No tv sounds, no stamping feet etc. Maybe twice a year someone drills a hole to mount something on the walls and I hear that for a few minutes. Even have a train passing by outside I can't hear with the windows closed. Point bein…

I live in a modern mid-rise in Dallas.

Same experience. Most noise comes from people in the hallways because a solid wood door does not insulate sound.

Traffic noise could be improved with triple pane windows, but really it's just un-restricted mufflers that penetrate, and that should be handled by the city.

Re: Spain lives in flats: why we have built our cities vertically

#99

Post by j_heffe »

whalesalad wrote: post #3

Different strokes for different folks. I’m a very happy single family home dweller. Living in a dense city feels claustrophobic.

Single family homes are fine. The problem in the U.S. is that it's illegal to build anything _but_ single family homes in the majority of suburbs. Wouldn't it be better if people had access to a walkable grocery store, coffee shop or park? Or if kids could safely walk or bike to school? Many communities have absolutely zero options and are completely reliant on cars in order to go about daily life.

Re: Spain lives in flats: why we have built our cities vertically

#100

Post by [deleted] »

xyzelement wrote: post #61
browningstreet wrote: post #54

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I live in northern Nevada in an exurb. I go for a walk everyday that requires me to go on a road for half a mile before I get to the dirt path. On that half mile road the traffic is so constant and so loud (from my small gated community) I can’t hear whatever I’m listening to on my headphones. The clamor is so aggravating I’m usually a bit angry by the time I hit the dirt path. My exurb neighbors (multiple) have loud…

I am just curious- why did you opt for a place that is so out of sync w what matters to you ?

[deleted]
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