A digital payments revolution in India • Hacker News Board

Re: A digital payments revolution in India

#161

Post by creaper » Sun, May 21, 2023, 9:05 AM UTC

himujjal wrote: post #152

Weird there are even negative comments about UPI. That too from people who haven't lived in pre-UPI era. My father and my uncle both have had history of losing cash to robbery earlier in the past in broad daylight. Snatch and run. Huge amounts of cash. My wallet has not seen any paper-based cash in over 1-2 years now and I live in a Tier-4 town/city. The habit of not giving the extra 1-2 rupees of extra change has go…

>The habit of not giving the extra 1-2 rupees of extra change has gone.

Yea, but I bet you are buying a lot of extra things that you don't really need, because it is easy to pay, and you will never run out of cash, because you are always drawing from some treasury that is always online. Earlier, with cash, you go to a bank and get some funds for monthly expenses, and you should be wary of running it out soon, because you ll have to go to the bank again. For bigger expenses, you used a cheque.

Now you don't have to think twice before ordering a takeaway that costs 500 bucks.

Make all exploitation more efficient. That is the purpose of technology in modern human existence. Technologies that does that, will go mainstream, others fizzle out.

Re: A digital payments revolution in India

#162

Post by WeylandYutani » Sun, May 21, 2023, 9:16 AM UTC

sifar wrote: post #122

ta7789 wrote: post #84

People seem to have a general distrust about the Indian government and the UPI system. There are certainly a lot of conspiracy theories floating around. The plain idea of UPI is that it is publicly funded digital infrastructure. The US has networks such as Mastercard, Visa, etc. These are privately run digital infrastructure that facilitate digital payments. UPI is publicly funded digital infrastructure. AFAIK it is…

>> The plain idea of UPI is that it is publicly funded digital infrastructure UPI is developed by NPCI which is a consortium of Indian banks (public and private), supported by RBI[0]. It is a not-for profit, but not publicly funded. The fees are lower right now since they want to proliferate the use and get a monopoly over Visa/Mastercard. Once done, expect them to be at par. They just added some fees this march [1].…

Visa/MasterCard is an extension of the American government.

I distrust them more than my local government.

Re: A digital payments revolution in India

#163

Post by WeylandYutani » Sun, May 21, 2023, 9:21 AM UTC

SanjayMehta wrote: post #101

ta7789 wrote: post #84

People seem to have a general distrust about the Indian government and the UPI system. There are certainly a lot of conspiracy theories floating around. The plain idea of UPI is that it is publicly funded digital infrastructure. The US has networks such as Mastercard, Visa, etc. These are privately run digital infrastructure that facilitate digital payments. UPI is publicly funded digital infrastructure. AFAIK it is…

The fact that it's public infrastructure and has no transaction fees is the source of much of the negative press. Both Mastercard and Visa went complaining to the US govt about UPI and RuPay because they foresee their duopoly ending.

Yep Americans will tell you it is normal for a company to take 1-2% of every transaction. Don't believe their lies.

Re: A digital payments revolution in India

#164

Post by EVa5I7bHFq9mnYK » Sun, May 21, 2023, 9:41 AM UTC

blntechie wrote: post #21

photochemsyn wrote: post #8

[flagged]

How is it different from any digital payment? Many European countries and the US has been doing digital transactions for like 2 decades now. How was it not authoritarian then but suddenly when the Asian people do it, it's a way to track everything people does and not the simplest explanation which is it makes transactions easier?

>> US has been doing digital transactions for like 2 decades now

Yeah, just recently did a digital transaction in the US (ACH). Took 2 weeks for money to arrive.

Re: A digital payments revolution in India

#165

Post by hestefisk » Sun, May 21, 2023, 9:49 AM UTC

villgax wrote: post #150

padiyar83 wrote: post #90

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Thank you for bringing this clarity. And as an Indian citizen I am glad we took this step towards building an independent payments infrastructure, given how critical a payments clearance system is to the functioning of a modern economy. I don't want other governments to hold us hostage through Visa's and Mastercard's where we are just one sanction away from economic meltdown. Just like what happened recently in Russi…

In case you are not aware, UPI is basically a rebranded IMPS with Venmo style of address. Until UPI actually works internationally it is still a domestic payment system.

Singapore’s PayNow interfaces with UPI as well as PromptPay (Thailand). It’s only a matter of time before these payment rails get interconnected and SWIFT is history.

Re: A digital payments revolution in India

#166

Post by EVa5I7bHFq9mnYK » Sun, May 21, 2023, 9:55 AM UTC

ta7789 wrote: post #87

samarthr1 wrote: post #46

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not sure if you are unfamiliar with the credit cards issued in India, but my bank's fraud protection is limited to "did someone steal your card and make a payment"

Credit cards work differently in the US compared to the rest of the world. You can just "charge back" the merchant for pretty much any reason.

No, you can't. I tried twice. Banks side with the merchants because merchants pay them, not you.

Re: A digital payments revolution in India

#167

Post by ta_vf7xjd34cc » Sun, May 21, 2023, 10:56 AM UTC

jeff_d_miller wrote: post #153

ta_vf7xjd34cc wrote: post #125

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> A quick search didn‘t turn up any current US sanctions either. The US and Indian governments have had bad relations for a long time. The US has the habit of weaponizing anything and everything. While not exactly sanctions, people don't forget things like PL480[1] that easily: > Many of us still have hurtful memories of the mid-'60s when, after two successive years of savage drought, India desperately needed America…

Domestic mismanagement in India can hardly be called a sanction by the U.S. In other words, how would an independent financial system have helped India to put food on the table?

> Domestic mismanagement in India can hardly be called a sanction by the U.S.

There is more to this.

The partition of India in 1947 divided Punjab in such a way that most of the fertile land went to Pakistan. Food shortages were soon a reality that would take decades to resolve.

There is also this theory that explains the partition of India in terms of the (then) looming Cold War. Creating Pakistan and supporting its claim on Kashmir prevented the USSR direct access to the Arabian Sea through Afghanistan and then India.[1][2][3]

> [Jinnah] was backed by British imperialists, notably Winston Churchill, who believed Pakistan would prove a faithful friend to the West and a bulwark between the Soviet Union and a socialist India.

> independent financial system

It is not a question of the financial system in particular, but of attitudes. The US has historically not shied away from using every available tool in order to achieve its geopolitical goals, be it finance or aid. But these actions cast long shadows that have to be dealt with generations after the people involved are long dead and buried.

[1] Who Is to Blame for Partition? Above All, Imperial Britain (https://www.nytimes.com/2017/08/18/opinion/india-pakistan-pa...)

[2] Partition through the looking glass (https://www.thehindubusinessline.com/opinion/partition-throu...)

[3] Baghdad Pact (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Baghdad_Pact)

Re: A digital payments revolution in India

#168

Post by villgax » Sun, May 21, 2023, 3:18 PM UTC

nooby12345 wrote: post #155

villgax wrote: post #150

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In case you are not aware, UPI is basically a rebranded IMPS with Venmo style of address. Until UPI actually works internationally it is still a domestic payment system.

Who built the IMPS?

Technically based off the same network as ATMs by IDRBT, https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Institute_for_Development_an...

Unified Payments Interface is built on top of IMPS, with the key architectural work done by the Mobile Payments Forum of India, IIT Madras and IDRBT

It is managed by the National Payments Corporation of India (NPCI) and is built upon the existing National Financial Switch network.

Re: A digital payments revolution in India

#169

Post by codethief » Sun, May 21, 2023, 3:48 PM UTC

toomuchtodo wrote: post #4

India: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Unified_Payments_Interface Brazil: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pix_(payment_system) US: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/FedNow

Europe: SEPA Instant Credit Transfer

https://www.europeanpaymentscouncil.eu/what-we-do/sepa-insta...

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Single_Euro_Payments_Area#Sche...

So far it hasn't seen widespread adoption, though.

Re: A digital payments revolution in India

#170

Post by WinstonSmith84 » Sun, May 21, 2023, 4:18 PM UTC

cubefox wrote: post #95

WinstonSmith84 wrote: post #94

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How could that be less control when it will be in fact a centralized database? Remember how much trouble it was for the Canadian government to freeze the accounts of the Canadian truckers? Now it will just be a request to an "admin"...

Is it really centralized?

It will be, that's what CB in CBDC is about.

If you wonder what Governments may / will do with CBDC, here is something which shall be enlightening https://cointelegraph.com/news/the-world-could-be-facing-a-d...