Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

Baltimore sues Hyundai, Kia over spike in car thefts

thebaltimorebanner.com

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

161–170 of 670 posts

Re: Baltimore sues Hyundai, Kia over spike in car thefts

#161

Post by prottog »

krisoft wrote: post #104
alexb_ wrote: post #5

How is it Hyundai's fault that people steal cars? It's acting as if theives are some force of nature that we can't control or something. You prevent theft by putting theives in jail. It's not complicated.

> You prevent theft by putting theives in jail. This is such an incredible naive view of the world. Whether or not crimes are committed is a complicated interplay of cost/benefit. You say that the city is acting as if thieves are some force of nature. And to a certain extent they are. If it is easy enough to commit a crime and the reward is high enough a crime will be committed. As an example if you leave gold bars l…

> As an example if you leave gold bars littered on your front yard people will pick them up. No amount of "putting thieves in jail" will save you.

Of course there is an amount of "putting thieves in jail" which will save you; once all the thieves are in jail, the remainder of the populace would mind their own business and walk past the gold bars.

If your thesis is that literally everyone would steal those gold bars, then I have to point out that this is a very pessimistic view, and that there are multiple different places around the world where it wouldn't happen.

Re: Baltimore sues Hyundai, Kia over spike in car thefts

#162

Post by amanaplanacanal »

theGnuMe wrote: post #158
HillRat wrote: post #46

Earlier quoted context omitted.

These lawsuits are part of a longstanding effort by cities and states to try and develop a theory of manufacturer legal accountability through public nuisance law, an effort that is perhaps morally laudable but legally fraught; to date, other than a few outlier environmental cases from the '70s, courts have almost uniformly declined to create a kind of parallel product-liability law through nuisance. While individual…

The auto manufacturers absolutely have liability.

Can you point to some case law supporting that position? Or some sort of legal analysis?

Re: Baltimore sues Hyundai, Kia over spike in car thefts

#163

Post by russellbeattie »

shrx wrote: post #7

Is there a list published somewhere documenting which Hyundai and Kia car models are affected?

If you own a Kia, enter your VIM on their site below and it'll tell you if it's vulnerable. I just checked my 2012 Sportage - it has an electronic keyfob start so it's OK.

https://ksupport.kiausa.com/ConsumerAffairs/SWLD

Re: Baltimore sues Hyundai, Kia over spike in car thefts

#164

Post by macinjosh »

hoofhearted wrote: post #160
local_crmdgeon wrote: post #140

The City of Baltimore has repeatedly demonstrated that they will do anything besides try to change the behavior of the population. It's a failed city, and luckily the model is being exported to places like SF, LA, and DC. Why should we punish people who repeatedly commit crime anyway? Fuck it, why do anything? Let's sue Kia instead, maybe we can get a payday

It’s a little early to be drinking isn’t it? The city is suing to recover the money they spent on all the police efforts expended because Kia cut corners to reduce costs.

Schwinn does nothing to stop bicycle thefts. Let’s sue them too!

Re: Baltimore sues Hyundai, Kia over spike in car thefts

#165

Post by kayodelycaon »

taylodl wrote: post #109
JustSomeNobody wrote: post #108

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If I leave my door open and someone steals my TV, it's not my fault I don't have a TV anymore.

Legally it is. If there was no signs of forced entry then you're not going to be compensated for your loss and the police aren't going to pursue any suspects. But that's not what this case is about. To use your analogy, imagine KIA were a lock maker such as Kwikset. You bought their lock to install on your front door. You locked your door and left the house. You came back and your TV was gone, with no signs of forced…

That's not what legally means... it's still illegal to steal other people's things, no matter how easy you make it to steal.

Now practically, whether it's legal or not, no one is going to help you.

Re: Baltimore sues Hyundai, Kia over spike in car thefts

#166

Post by hoofhearted »

local_crmdgeon wrote: post #143
ravensfan69 wrote: post #139

I live in Baltimore, in a pretty "good" part of town where most of the young professionals and Hopkins hospital staff live. I know 4 different people who've had cars stolen in the past 24 months. In 3 of these cases the perpetrators were teenagers, and in 2 of these cases they brandished guns. Only one of these thefts were Hyundai/Kia-related, and the thief punched my buddy in the face during the theft. Many others I…

Yeah, at some point in Chicago and Baltimore people figured out that career criminals vote, and will vote in their own interests. Very few people vote in local elections anyway, so they've managed to elect a ton of prosecutors who promise not to prosecute. Feels like the 70s in Urban America repeating itself. I feel bad for the older Black population in Baltimore. They busted ass for the last 50 years and they got to…

Citations needed.

Please don’t come on my turf and start trashing out city without facts.

I just looked down my street to Fort McHenry and our flag was still there :)

Re: Baltimore sues Hyundai, Kia over spike in car thefts

#167

Post by peoplearepeople »

hoofhearted wrote: post #160
local_crmdgeon wrote: post #140

The City of Baltimore has repeatedly demonstrated that they will do anything besides try to change the behavior of the population. It's a failed city, and luckily the model is being exported to places like SF, LA, and DC. Why should we punish people who repeatedly commit crime anyway? Fuck it, why do anything? Let's sue Kia instead, maybe we can get a payday

It’s a little early to be drinking isn’t it? The city is suing to recover the money they spent on all the police efforts expended because Kia cut corners to reduce costs.

No it's completely ridiculous that police think this is a car manufacturer issue. This is a failure of the police

Re: Baltimore sues Hyundai, Kia over spike in car thefts

#168

Post by mattkrause »

Fatnino wrote: post #131
harimau777 wrote: post #84

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm not a lawyer, but as I understand it, this sort of thing is generally based on a reasonable person standard. I.e. would a reasonable person assume that if their car requires a key to start, then it cannot be started with something as trivial as a USB key?

I keep hearing this vague claim that the cars can be started with a usb key. How does this work? Is there a usb port that reads some secret file off the USB key? Is it just the USB plug shape that fits somewhere in the car that forces it to turn on?

I think (not a car thief!) that starting the car just requires turning something approximately USB-shaped; the electronics in the key don't matter.

Re: Baltimore sues Hyundai, Kia over spike in car thefts

#170

Post by whitej125 »

I figured these Hyundai/Kia thefts using a USB cable was some techy issue... like there was a auto technicians USB port that would disable car security if it has something plugged into it.

No.

After 5 minutes of searching you see that a USB-A connector just happens to fit perfectly over the nub in the ignition and allows you to turn it.

The problem is there is no engine immobilizer. So you can start the engine just by physically turning the ignition. I thought EI was pretty much standard on all cars post late 90's.

Post reply on HN