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I'm Pirating the Next Version of Windows

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Re: I'm Pirating the Next Version of Windows

#161

Post by Karunamon »

xist wrote: post #157
Karunamon wrote: post #117

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Minor niggle, but please stop misusing "steal". We need to get that meme killed.

it's called "identity theft" when someone does it to your identity though :P Your SSN and details are all intellectual property too!

The difference being that using someone using your identity fraudulently legitimately has a real, tangible impact.

..You could also make the case that it deprives you of the ability to use your own reputation.

If I copy something of yours, the impact to you is zero.

Re: I'm Pirating the Next Version of Windows

#162

Post by Karunamon »

sanderjd wrote: post #155
Karunamon wrote: post #141

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The crux of the matter is that "steal" implies you've deprived the owner of something. (Actually, the us supreme court ruled on this a long while ago and clearly delineated the two..) The only reason for the tap on the shoulder is the effort by the industry groups to get people to conflate the two things. I hate seeing people be tricked, especially by such an odious organization :)

Could you link to that decision or do you perhaps know the name of the case so I could search for it? The deprivation idea doesn't seem to be intuitive to most people I've talked with and it would be great to know the actual case law.

Sure, the case you're looking for is Dowling v. United States. I'd give you a Wiki link, but..

The general gist of the case is that a man made a business out of pressing and selling Elvis records without distribution rights. Because of this, he was indicted for (among other things) distribution of stolen property and conspiracy of the same.

The supreme court struck down all of the stealing charges, with an opinion that (and I'm paraphrasing from memory here): "Copyright implies a more complex set of property interests than simple theft".

Re: I'm Pirating the Next Version of Windows

#163

Post by gurkendoktor »

kmm wrote: post #124
melling wrote: post #23

If you don't like their product or policies, don't use it. If you use it then you should pay for it. Use Linux, a BSD Unix, or a Mac. People who pirate Microsoft products don't really hurt Microsoft, they hurt the rest of the competition.

I don't agree. This is only a possibility for some people. I gave up on Windows about five years ago and have been a happy Linux user since. I don't have any pirated software at all on my system. But most people aren't ready or capable of learning a whole new operating system they have to install and manage themselves (unless Linux comes preinstalled on the computer). And most importantly, almost everyone uses certai…

My family got by for a long time on a legal XP + MS Works. They then had to pirate the real MS Office because teachers at school only accept PPT files, and OpenOffice's export was too broken.

I buy all my software but I still can't really blame them.

Re: I'm Pirating the Next Version of Windows

#164

Post by Retric »

MatthewB wrote: post #116
coob wrote: post #87

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Apple tried rental of TV shows. They shuttered it: http://allthingsd.com/20110826/apple-pulls-the-plug-on-tv-re...

Yes, I do remember when they shuttered TV show rentals. The only reason they gave is that users preferred to buy TV shows. I find that hard to believe although I could be wrong. Charging people $1.99/$2.99 to purchase an episode of a show means $20-$30 for a season (sometimes more). It makes more sense to just pay for cable at those prices, which I refuse to do.

At the low end 40$ a month * 12 month/ 40$ a show / year = 12 shows. I don't know about you, but I don't think many people watch that much TV excluding reruns. But, I do know plenty of people that pay 100$ a month for cable.

Re: I'm Pirating the Next Version of Windows

#165

Post by WettowelReactor »

MatthewB wrote: post #138
Karunamon wrote: post #134

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Take your pick. There's: Using unlicensed software copyright infringement downloading a torrent pirating ..among others. None of them roll off the tongue as nicely as "steal" or "thief", but copyright infringement is just as illegal as stealing. The industry groups have been campaigning for years (with great success) to ensure they mean the same thing. They do not. Please don't fall into their trap.

Hmm...interesting. I see the difference you are trying to illustrate but to me, obtaining something illegally that was intended to be purchased is stealing. We're talking about the same thing though:)

Well seeing as we have different degrees of murder maybe we should have a sliding scale for stealing. While stealing physical content deprives the seller and the creator digital theft only impacts one party. Also since the majority of an items physical value comes from inflation from middle men the "value" of a digital item is probably considerably less as well.

Re: I'm Pirating the Next Version of Windows

#166

Post by sanderjd »

xist wrote: post #156
hrktb wrote: post #123

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No it is not, at least not for every version. I didn't have to use windows for a very long time, and about a month ago I installed a windows XP SP3 in a virtual machine. The grace period ended a few days ago: - the automatic activation failed - my product key is said to have been pirated - the phone support for registration is now fully automated, and just rejects my phone activation. - the machine won't load whole s…

It sounds like the problem stems from the 2 things: 1.) the media you installed from was not legit 2.) Windows gives you notices that it needs to be activated, which you ignored. You won't be able to fix that without reinstalling or using a crack. The phone activation will work but you need to change product key. There is an article of Microsoft support site on how to do that actaully. However, it's a problem with yo…

I currently have this problem with a Windows 7 machine I bought from eBay. I can't activate it and I have a black desktop (sorta annoying) and two or three different things that pop up periodically to yell at me (incredibly annoyingly, especially the one that makes an obnoxious error noise). This situation is definitely my fault - there are a few possibilities for where I went wrong:

1) maybe the guy I bought it from was not legit - I asked him lots of questions before going through with the purchase but that's about as much as I could (or would be willing to) do,

2) Using what I believed to be the correct, legal process, I created an install disk and looked up the key for my existing OEM install, which I used to reinstall a fresh instance without any of the HP nonsense the machine came with,

3) For a couple days I had an install using the same key on a VM to test something with IE9.

Any one of those things could be the problem and they were decisions I made, Microsoft didn't force or manipulate me. But here's the thing, at the end of the day what I have is a really obnoxious machine and if I had just bought a Mac (off of eBay even!) or installed Linux instead, I wouldn't have to deal with any of this. You're right that the Microsoft experience isn't so bad, if you follow the rules you're probably going to have a bare minimum of hassle, but it is still so much worse than the competition on this front.

Re: I'm Pirating the Next Version of Windows

#167

Post by astrodust »

trotsky wrote: post #139
MatthewB wrote: post #116

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes, I do remember when they shuttered TV show rentals. The only reason they gave is that users preferred to buy TV shows. I find that hard to believe although I could be wrong. Charging people $1.99/$2.99 to purchase an episode of a show means $20-$30 for a season (sometimes more). It makes more sense to just pay for cable at those prices, which I refuse to do.

Apple doesn't like rental services because unlike purchases of proprietary drm content rentals don't provide long term lock in to the platform.

Apple has been pushing for less DRM, not more, and would rather people bought into their platform without being held hostage.

It is not an easy thing to convince publishers that no DRM is the way to go, yet the music companies reluctantly agreed. Considering Apple is the number one retailer of music, ahead of Wal-Mart, this seems to have worked out quite well.

Rentals are hard to market because in the digital domain you have the same media file as you would if you had "purchased it", only the licensing is different. Charging hotel-room prices for movie rentals will not translate to many sales. Netflix has the right idea for rentals. Low-quality streaming, flat rate pricing.

Re: I'm Pirating the Next Version of Windows

#168

Post by andrewfelix »

Disaster recovery is much easier with a legitimate windows licence. Both in terms of having the original recovery disk, and support.

There are subtle issues with pirated installations that can cause serious issues when things start to go wrong. (Speaking from experience)

Re: I'm Pirating the Next Version of Windows

#169

Post by WettowelReactor »

I dont know why they do this for their client OS but for server OS you can get a free evaluation download of any server product and activate it with a purchased key, no muss no fuss. Also using the provided download manager I have never seen speed issues with these downloads. As far as phone activation, which we have to do for several sites without internet access, the process is a bit long but not nearly as tedious as described. I am admittedly against DRM but if anyone comes close to doing it right its Microsoft on their OS software.

Re: I'm Pirating the Next Version of Windows

#170

Post by GigabyteCoin »

These are all valid points, aligned with many of the views being upvoted today. However, I'd just like to point something out.

According to this article and many others, we all "pirate stuff" because it's "easier than the paid model"... well, the same goes for driving a car.

I would much rather just walk into my underground parking lot, hotwire a car, and ditch it once I got to my destination. But, I have morals.

I am not likening stealing a car to copyright infringement, only pointing out the reasoning that "I pirate because it's easier to do so" isn't really a moral/valid point.

It's easier for me to kill you instantly with my gun than it is for me to reason with you about a topic I don't care to reason about, too.

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