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Write simply (2021)

paulgraham.com

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Re: Write simply (2021)

#161

Post by amadeuspagel »

ly3xqhl8g9 wrote: post #114

"it's more considerate to write simply. When you write in a fancy way to impress people" "When I write a sentence that seems too complicated, or that uses unnecessarily intellectual words, it doesn't seem fancy to me. It seems clumsy." So apparently the dimensions are writing simply ⮂ writing fancy, which actually gets reduced to writing simply ⮂ writing clumsy. This implies that any writing which is not clumsy is wr…

Wittgenstein's Philosophical Investigations is simple, easy to read, doesn't have any references except in the introduction and epigraph and was also written by a rich guy.

Re: Write simply (2021)

#162

Post by littlelady »

morley wrote: post #141
littlelady wrote: post #118

One of the things missing from Mr. Graham's musings is the context , e.g. academic, business. And a at least some clarification of what fancy words and sentence structure are. Mr. Graham doesn't use the term, but purple prose odious to read and I would agree that complicated writing is often used (e.g. in academia) to obfuscate the key message and bolster weak arguments. On the other end of the spectrum too much simp…

As a counterpoint, I think context matters the _least_. I've read a lot of business writing where the writer's mindset is clearly:I am writing for business, therefore I must sound business-like. Lots of "in terms of", "for the purpose of", "ideation", "develop needs", "affect change", "going forward". From what I hear and from what little I've read, a similar overwrought voice has developed in academia too. I've fall…

I neither intended to imply that a writer must sound exactly like their context, nor did I intend for context to be interpreted as a style that a writer should achieve or imitate.

What I meant by context was: (1) For whom is the writing intended? (2) What is the purpose of the writing? (3) What is the intended tone?

(1) Is the reader an academic? New to a subject? An expert? A layperson? How old are they?

(2) Is the purpose of this text to inform? To persuade? To entertain? To instruct?

(3) Optimistic, pessimistic, uplifting, formal, casual?

The most effective communicators will have a consistent (and unique) voice whether writing a newspaper article, a college text book, or a toast. I believe strong communicators consider the context of their writing or speaking.

Re: Write simply (2021)

#163

Post by alphazard »

syntaxfree wrote: post #146
WA wrote: post #91

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I know zero articles that went viral with varied and complicated prose. Care to share an example or two?

David Foster Wallace had a couple of essays published online that went viral if anything can be considered viral.

DFW is the classic example of prose which is incredibly pleasing to read, but isn't actually better at conveying information. He routinely expands banal topics in philosophy into pages. I don't think his intent was ever to bring the reader up to speed on a topic, or convince the reader of a particular philosophical position though.

Many people try to emulate his style, usually they fail, and if they succeed it works against the purpose of their writing, which for most people, most of the time, is to communicate an idea.

Re: Write simply (2021)

#164

Post by mabil »

paulpauper wrote: post #10

This may be good advice for an instruction manual or children's books, but I think good prose is something of an art in and of itself. Some of the most successful writers do the opposite. Look at the articles that go viral ..you see that the prose is varied and even complicated, not just simple. The best prose is that which conveys the intended message for the intended audience in the best way possible. I think it's…

If you are aiming for virality, you need to use the lowest common denominator. A fast thinker will understand someone that speaks slow, a slow thinker will not grasp everything a person who speaks fast says.

Re: Write simply (2021)

#165

Post by greenie_beans »

defrost wrote: post #51
greenie_beans wrote: post #20

proust would like a word

inviolable Intended for a more special and a baser use, this room, from which, in the daytime, I could see as far as the keep of Roussainville-le-Pin, was for a long time my place of refuge, doubtless because it was the only room whose door Ï was allowed to lock, whenever my occupation was such as required an inviolable solitude; reading or dreaming, secret tears or paroxysms of desire. Although that's an English wor…

i wish i knew french so i could read his stuff as it should be

Re: Write simply (2021)

#166

Post by [deleted] »

dqv wrote: post #111
paulpauper wrote: post #10

This may be good advice for an instruction manual or children's books, but I think good prose is something of an art in and of itself. Some of the most successful writers do the opposite. Look at the articles that go viral ..you see that the prose is varied and even complicated, not just simple. The best prose is that which conveys the intended message for the intended audience in the best way possible. I think it's…

"Write simply" is given as advice because, well, it's good advice. Too many writers try to ball before they crawl. A memorable critique, from an English professor, of my writing: "stop trying to sound smart". He meant that I should stop trying to use big words and stop trying to construct complex sentences. >People state they want/like simple writing but revealed preferences show otherwise. Simplicity isn't what you…

[deleted]

Re: Write simply (2021)

#167

Post by waynesonfire »

nine_k wrote: post #156
dqv wrote: post #111

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"Write simply" is given as advice because, well, it's good advice. Too many writers try to ball before they crawl. A memorable critique, from an English professor, of my writing: "stop trying to sound smart". He meant that I should stop trying to use big words and stop trying to construct complex sentences. >People state they want/like simple writing but revealed preferences show otherwise. Simplicity isn't what you…

I love this maxim: "As simple as possible, but not simpler".

and this leads to _clear_ writing. Write clearly.

Re: Write simply (2021)

#168

Post by raincole »

dang wrote: post #83
vore wrote: post #63

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't really buy this idea of "thinking for yourself". We are nothing more than the product of our experiences: there are no axioms at the root of at any of our beliefs; fundamentally everything that goes through our heads is cobbled together from other sources that's cobbled together from other sources before that. And that's good! Because if we were attempting to derive everything from axioms that would be 1) imp…

You're right, the moment one uses language one is full of other-peopleness. But there's still a big difference between thinking for oneself (and claiming the right to think for oneself, which most of us won't) and not daring to. And also: not having the energy to. I mostly don't do it because I'm too lazy. Cowardice too, but laziness is more pleasant to admit to. You're wrong about "position as a wealthy VC". As I sa…

It's very weird that you kept emphasizing "PG was like that before he got rich." You mentioned this point in both of your comments, but the ones you replied to didn't imply PG became like that after he got rich. None of them did.

Straw-manning is a telling sigh that you got defensive about PG, for some reason.

Re: Write simply (2021)

#169

Post by t8sr »

qsort wrote: post #130
dqv wrote: post #111

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"Write simply" is given as advice because, well, it's good advice. Too many writers try to ball before they crawl. A memorable critique, from an English professor, of my writing: "stop trying to sound smart". He meant that I should stop trying to use big words and stop trying to construct complex sentences. >People state they want/like simple writing but revealed preferences show otherwise. Simplicity isn't what you…

I think we are confusing two concepts: clear prose and ordinary words. It's right in the first sentence: > I try to write using ordinary words and simple sentences. They don't go hand in hand. Quite the contrary, I'm arguing they are in conflict. Drawing from a larger vocabulary allows greater precision, results in shorter sentences and enables the writer to express complex ideas concisely. Ironically, artificially r…

> They don't go hand in hand. Quite the contrary, I'm arguing they are in conflict.

"Those two things are at odds with each other."

> Drawing from a larger vocabulary allows greater precision, results in shorter sentences and enables the writer to express complex ideas concisely.

"Using more precise words enables simpler sentences, even for complex ideas."

> Ironically, artificially restricting what words one can use puts a far greater cognitive burden on the reader. It's superfluous to quote the relevant xkcd.

"Limiting yourself to only simple words makes it harder to read."

> There's no cure for unclear prose: it's the necessary consequence of unclear thoughts.

"????"

I think what you're saying would be a lot more convincing if you had, in fact, been able to express it more clearly.

Re: Write simply (2021)

#170

Post by t8sr »

vishnugupta wrote: post #79
paulpauper wrote: post #10

This may be good advice for an instruction manual or children's books, but I think good prose is something of an art in and of itself. Some of the most successful writers do the opposite. Look at the articles that go viral ..you see that the prose is varied and even complicated, not just simple. The best prose is that which conveys the intended message for the intended audience in the best way possible. I think it's…

Of late, I'm reading diverse authors, and I noticed that I get drawn to more aesthetically pleasant writings. So I'm beginning to pay more weightage and attention to the aesthetics of writing than before. Good content and pleasing aesthetics go together. It means the writer made an effort to make the writing beautiful besides bringing forth insightful points. It could also be about appreciating subtler aspects of lif…

Good writers can use big words well. Someone who has been writing for 20 years is able to reach for a precise word in the right situation, to get the right effect. 99% of the people are not good writers, and when they try to do that, it comes across unreadable in the best case and self-important in the average case.

Just say what you mean. Text is beautiful because it flows, the sentence might evoke the thing it's describing by its sounds or rhythm or structure. It's not beautiful because it uses big words.

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