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D.C. free bus bill becomes law as zero-fare transit systems take off

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Re: D.C. free bus bill becomes law as zero-fare transit systems take off

#161

Post by jffry »

alwayslikethis wrote: post #3

Making transit free really misses the point. The money is much better spent on actually improving the transit options, such as buying more buses to improve frequency, building new tram or rail lines, or general maintenance (cleaning) that make using the transit more appealing for all but the most desperate. Look at all the cities in Asia and Europe where normal people use transit. Very few of them are free, though th…

Removing fare collection itself improves bus service (less time spent at stops as boarding can happen at all doors)

Setting that aside, this legislation also includes $10m/year in funding to further enhance bus service:

- Creating new routes

- Extending hours (all night service on key routes)

- Shortening headways between buses

Re: D.C. free bus bill becomes law as zero-fare transit systems take off

#162

Post by za3faran »

dools wrote: post #112
mixmastamyk wrote: post #103

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Like the car tax idea, but free attracts the destitute and mentally ill. Offer the working poor and looking a transit pass instead.

If free attracts the "destitute and mentally ill", then probably we should be: 1) Not allowing anyone to be destitute and; 2) Also providing free and comprehensive mental health care

We should also be asking why are there so many mentally ill people to begin with, and also address that cause.

Re: D.C. free bus bill becomes law as zero-fare transit systems take off

#163

Post by tshaddox »

BuyMyBitcoins wrote: post #153
tshaddox wrote: post #86

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Recovery rates are almost all under 20% in the US, and these numbers don’t even incorporate the cost of selling tickets and ticket enforcement or the costs of the initial builds and expansions (which are almost entirely paid for by the taxpayer).

That’s still a significant amount of money, even though it’s under 20% of the total operating cost. For most of the entries in that article it covers tens of millions of dollars. I don’t think the cost of issuing tickets and enforcement is that significant compared to how much money collecting fares brings in. It certainly doesn’t seem like something that is done at a loss or something that barely breaks even.

It's not nothing, but if the goal is to turn a profit it's nowhere close. On the other hand, if the goal is to get more people riding public transit, I'd want to look into how removing fees might help that goal.

Re: D.C. free bus bill becomes law as zero-fare transit systems take off

#164

Post by mixmastamyk »

Broken_Hippo wrote: post #113
mixmastamyk wrote: post #103

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Like the car tax idea, but free attracts the destitute and mentally ill. Offer the working poor and looking a transit pass instead.

Oh, no, poor people might share the bus with me. Wouldn't want poor or mentally ill folks to do things like get to a doctors appointment, buy food, or visit family if they can't get there invisibly. /s. Now is when I'd like to remind you that you share spaces with mentally ill folks every single day and you don't notice a thing: A lot of destitute folks are disable and being destitute shouldn't mean that you have to…

You’ve obviously never taken the LA metro episode of the walking dead. And the ignorance shows.

Re: D.C. free bus bill becomes law as zero-fare transit systems take off

#165

Post by mixmastamyk »

supersour wrote: post #121
Broken_Hippo wrote: post #113

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Oh, no, poor people might share the bus with me. Wouldn't want poor or mentally ill folks to do things like get to a doctors appointment, buy food, or visit family if they can't get there invisibly. /s. Now is when I'd like to remind you that you share spaces with mentally ill folks every single day and you don't notice a thing: A lot of destitute folks are disable and being destitute shouldn't mean that you have to…

I think the parent comment is referring the homeless population which is violent or too public in their drug use/paraphernalia. Pick the right bus line in Vancouver. You will notice mentally ill, violent people, and it certainly discourages the public from using public transit. Now, will waiving a $2 fee change this meaningfully? Hard to day. But it's not helpful to ignore the problem.

[dead]

Re: D.C. free bus bill becomes law as zero-fare transit systems take off

#166

Post by mixmastamyk »

dools wrote: post #135
supersour wrote: post #128

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I love this idea in theory, but recognize that you are moving the discussion from providing effective, safe, and equitable transportation towards solving homelessness. Both issues are important, but in the context of this article one must ask, "what is best for the majority of public transit users?". It's certainly possible that a $2 rate improves quality or security meaningful ways. The problem of "sketchy homeless…

> I love this idea in theory, but recognize that you are moving the discussion from providing effective, safe, and equitable transportation towards solving homelessness. Sure, but if the objection to "public transport should be free" is "then there will be a bunch of scary homeless people there" shouldn't be "let's charge enough so they can't ride the bus" it should be "hey let's fix that too!" We can fix two things.…

You would think, but obviously not happening. This quarter measure (enacted before prerequisites) makes it worse for the working poor. And anyone who is in favor of transit, tourists too, who are important for the economy.

Re: D.C. free bus bill becomes law as zero-fare transit systems take off

#167

Post by mixmastamyk »

quintushoratius wrote: post #158
Ferret7446 wrote: post #141

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Even if it's due to society, what are you going to do? Burn LA/CA to the ground and rebuild its society and culture to your tastes? The fact is that in the context of LA, fares and gates are needed.

How about we try healthcare and housing? No need to sleep on the bus when you can sleep at home.

Yes, and definitely before free transit.

Re: D.C. free bus bill becomes law as zero-fare transit systems take off

#168

Post by mixmastamyk »

dx034 wrote: post #125
mixmastamyk wrote: post #97

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If you want transportation free of sleepers and walking dead, there must be fares and gates. Otherwise you’ll end up with the horrors of the LA Metro… meth heads smoking up, stairs dripping with blood, etc.

Many European cities have low flat fares and no gates. And yet, they don't encounter the problems LA has. Maybe it's a problem of society and not public transport.

Good root cause analysis; now get on it before free transit.

Re: D.C. free bus bill becomes law as zero-fare transit systems take off

#169

Post by dools »

midoridensha wrote: post #148
dools wrote: post #147

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Then perhaps they need a house and a job, and mental and physical healthcare. And perhaps that needs to be provided for a few decades to reverse the generational trauma caused by involuntary unemployment and poverty.

The people causing the problems people complain about can't hold down a job, and will trash any house they're given. What they need is to be put in a mental institution, but that became unfashionable during the 80s for some reason. With proper help, some of them probably could be returned to society. And of course there are many who are just victims of circumstance; those really should be helped with housing and jobs…

Sure thing. My brother needed to go to a psychiatric hospital, and of course it's very difficult to be involuntarily committed.

We got him there in the end, mostly due to the enduring support of his partner.

My lesson from that was that, with the right support, and a bit of patience, people can get the help they need.

Takes a bit of time though. I think in the vast majority of cases if we offer a job to anyone who wants one at a socially inclusive minimum wage doing work in their community, in addition to stable housing, within a few years they'll be doing better, and within a generation the negative impacts of involuntary unemployment and homelessness will be a relic of the past.

Re: D.C. free bus bill becomes law as zero-fare transit systems take off

#170

Post by midoridensha »

scrollaway wrote: post #150
midoridensha wrote: post #138

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>You know Tokyo is the most populated city in the world, right. The solutions in place there will HAVE to be different to anywhere else on the planet. Wrong. The laws of physics are not different in other places. The complaint was that it takes too long to collect fares. This is factually untrue, and Japan's system (it uses the same system nationwide) proves this. It's a solved problem. In other places, it can be eve…

You missed the point by far enough that it’s not even worth arguing with you. Believe whatever you want, it’s not you I need to convince in order to get more free public transit in the world anyway…

Obviously you don't believe in reality, so it's worthless having any discussion with you.
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