161–170 of 232 posts
> gender differences appear to be greater in societies with greater gender equality and in which people have greater economic resources I don't think this is a paradox at all. Discouraging 50% of the workforce talent pool is a wasteful luxury that only countries with abundant resources can afford. I experienced this first hand when I moved to Sweden. I had never been made to feel like a freak for being a programmer u…
Earlier quoted context omitted.
>> On average women find tech work grindingly boring. > No evidence of that Are you for real? Have you ever tried to talk to any women about technology? With occasional exceptions, the response you will get is a face that has completely glazed over. This is only a problem for people who believe in egalitarian ideology - where every group is supposed to be at all times "equal" in ways that are simply not bourne out in…
You wanted evidence, not anecdotes. But if you want anecdotes then yes, I've even worked with a bunch of women in tech. You can't make generalizations based off your own experiences though, obviously I'll bump into women in tech while working in tech. But similarly, if the people you bump into aren't already in tech, then it shouldn't be too surprising that they're not as excited as you are about it. You believe they…
That is indeed an article faith - one that is disproven in reality
Sex differences manifest more strongly in more egalitarian countries:
Earlier quoted context omitted.
This is so tedious. I said there were plenty of exceptions. As with many human traits it's a distribution with long tails at the extremities, and plenty of overlap between groups. This doesn't in any way negate the existence of a mean difference between groups. In the real world innate sex differences are a fact of life. That's the whole point of the paper attached to this thread. Egalitarians believe that society wo…
How could it be reflected in the real world if we're still encumbered by the status quo? That's like pointing to a lack of EVs and saying see, no EVs, people don't want them. (Talking specifically about women in STEM here)
You can't prove any of these things. They are dogmatic assertions
> gender differences appear to be greater in societies with greater gender equality and in which people have greater economic resources I don't think this is a paradox at all. Discouraging 50% of the workforce talent pool is a wasteful luxury that only countries with abundant resources can afford. I experienced this first hand when I moved to Sweden. I had never been made to feel like a freak for being a programmer u…
Then look at pilots. As 50 years ago they are almost exclusively man. And this is in a strongly unionized field with a lot of scrutiny so it is much less likely that harassments will be undetected compared with IT.
Earlier quoted context omitted.
I have lived in a handful of different countries. I'm criticizing the idea that it's so simple to say one country is more sexist or more equal than another because there are so many metrics you can use to measure equality. Sweden beats a lot of countries when it comes to a strongly protected right to parental leave for both men and women. But Sweden is behind many other countries when it comes to stereotypes and assu…
This Swedish website actually claims that tech is a problem area for Sweden: https://sweden.se/life/equality/gender-equality There's a link to this report: https://static1.squarespace.com/static/5501a836e4b0472e6124f... "Every third woman who responded to the survey, sent out by Allbright to employees at the tech companies, reports that she has been discriminated against"
Which - putting my boring hat on - doesn't mean she was discriminated against.
Earlier quoted context omitted.
When I compare various countries on the "masculinity" index, it seems to me that they're all completely backwards.
Remember when that hypermasculine Russian military recruiting commercial went viral? They only give Russia 36 on the masculinity index. (US gets 62) Here's the construct description: >The Masculinity side of this dimension represents a preference in society for achievement, heroism, assertiveness, and material rewards for success. Society at large is more competitive. Its opposite, Femininity, stands for a preference…
>The Masculinity side of this dimension represents a preference in society for achievement, heroism, assertiveness, and material rewards for success.
This definitely does not sound like the Japan I live in, almost the opposite in fact. Japanese people are absolutely not known for assertiveness in particular; it's very much the opposite, they're infamous for being passive-aggressive. Heroism is definitely not a thing here. Achievement is so-so: being a reliable company workers and breadwinner is definitely highly valued, but not being a high achiever the way American culture, for instance, would value. Material rewards are valued though, but even here not as much as in America (which only ranks 62 somehow).
>Its opposite, Femininity, stands for a preference for cooperation, modesty, caring for the weak and quality of life. Society at large is more consensus-oriented.
This is absolutely Japan in a nutshell, for the most part, especially the part about being consensus-oriented. Japanese business culture is completely based on this: no decisions ever get made quickly or unilaterally; they require tons of boring meetings to build consensus before something big gets done. Caring for the weak and quality of life isn't as big as some western European nations, at least in terms of government policy, but it's still there, especially with, for instance, respect for elders (there's even a national holiday just for this).
By contrast, America ranking only 62 here seems like a bad joke. American culture is all about achievement, heroism (hello, Marvel movies!), assertiveness (even when you're completely wrong), and certainly material rewards for success. Caring for the weak? Americans hate that: that's why they vote against social programs any time they can. "Quality of life" isn't a concern in America.
If these people got these two countries SO completely and obviously wrong on the masculinity index, I really have no trust in their rankings for anything else.
wtf those “preferences” are a result of history - societies raised women to take care (take care of their family and house chores) while men went out in the wild to play, study and work. - women had to be “empathetic” because understanding one’s mood was vital to their survival throughout history: in times where it was “ok” and even expected that women were beaten up to make them more docile or whatever. - women were…
I have to disagree that it can all be explained by societal conditioning. They tried to sample every society they could in this study to see if societal factors could explain the preference but could not see a societal effect. While you might be able to claim that every society around the world is fundamentally sexist to explain the difference in preferences, I think in that case you would have to be able to explain…
> gender differences appear to be greater in societies with greater gender equality and in which people have greater economic resources I don't think this is a paradox at all. Discouraging 50% of the workforce talent pool is a wasteful luxury that only countries with abundant resources can afford. I experienced this first hand when I moved to Sweden. I had never been made to feel like a freak for being a programmer u…
>a wasteful luxury that only countries with abundant resources can afford. Is there an important sense in which Sweden has more abundant resources than, say, the US? The US outranks Sweden in both of these tables: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_average_w... https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_GDP_(PPP)...
Earlier quoted context omitted.
This is so tedious. I said there were plenty of exceptions. As with many human traits it's a distribution with long tails at the extremities, and plenty of overlap between groups. This doesn't in any way negate the existence of a mean difference between groups. In the real world innate sex differences are a fact of life. That's the whole point of the paper attached to this thread. Egalitarians believe that society wo…
The interesting part here is that there are plenty of exceptions - and those exceptions tend be clustered in different societies and cultures. I'm not advocating you change wherever you're at, I'm just delighted that where I am women drive road trains & haul paks, design ships, wire buildings, advance astrophyysics, etc (and, for that matter, so do the men). It certainly makes your bemoaning "have you tried talking t…
Of course there are local differences which is why these need to be normalized with a population-wide sample. In that case, sex differences present themselves clearly.
As the article states, surprise surprise, on average compared to men, women are more interested in people than things.