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U.S. fines airlines more than $7M for not providing refunds

nytimes.com

161–170 of 242 posts

Re: U.S. fines airlines more than $7M for not providing refunds

#161

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I’m not against government jobs programs. Just wish it was something useful day to day, like healthcare, versus security theater.

I'd rather just provide UBI. Pay them to do nothing instead of paying them to make everybody else's lives worse.

This is payment and structured days, which ensures that people have a good reference for applying to other jobs.

It's somewhat better than a UBI

Re: U.S. fines airlines more than $7M for not providing refunds

#162

I am relieved to see that regulators appear aware of the game that Frontier seems to be playing. I flew to Denver recently and didn't need to travel heavy so I went with their cheap fare. The flight from SFO was fine. The flight from DEN to SFO was extremely frustrating. We arrived at DEN early because we got a text message warning us about major TSA delays. Literally the moment we were about to board Frontier change…

> major TSA delays. This infuriates me. Last week I was stuck in line for TSA for an hour and a half at Sea-Tac. The TSA clowns had one guy looking at the X-rays of luggage at the speed of molasses. Am I to believe that the TSA, FAA and airlines can't coordinate to determine when gluts of incoming passengers are expected? Bullshit. Why didn't they have more TSA workers on shift? Because they don't give a shit, nothin…

[deleted]

Re: U.S. fines airlines more than $7M for not providing refunds

#163
post #135

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Outside the USA, especially at smaller airports, xraying all the bags is something thats only done to meet the rules. The staff don't care what you have in your bag - if security has a queue, they'll just pick 100 random people and tell them to skip security and go straight through to departures. Likewise, if there is only 2 people on duty to search bags identified that need searching, and they're busy, then any liqu…

Domestic flights in New Zealand are incredible. Single X-Ray machine, toss your bag on the conveyor, and it goes through just as fast as you can walk to the other side. No body scanners, no metal detectors.

The security 'theater' is what we pay for a high level of freedom in the US, especially in conservative states. You may reach the end of the queue faster, but what if there's a bad guy with a gun there? Where will the good guys be?

Re: U.S. fines airlines more than $7M for not providing refunds

#164

I am relieved to see that regulators appear aware of the game that Frontier seems to be playing. I flew to Denver recently and didn't need to travel heavy so I went with their cheap fare. The flight from SFO was fine. The flight from DEN to SFO was extremely frustrating. We arrived at DEN early because we got a text message warning us about major TSA delays. Literally the moment we were about to board Frontier change…

> major TSA delays. This infuriates me. Last week I was stuck in line for TSA for an hour and a half at Sea-Tac. The TSA clowns had one guy looking at the X-rays of luggage at the speed of molasses. Am I to believe that the TSA, FAA and airlines can't coordinate to determine when gluts of incoming passengers are expected? Bullshit. Why didn't they have more TSA workers on shift? Because they don't give a shit, nothin…

There is little to no incentive for the TSA or FAA to provide better service to the public. you can't exactly go with a competitor, The best you can do is file a complaint or email your congressman. (source 15 years of federal work experience for multiple agencies)

Re: U.S. fines airlines more than $7M for not providing refunds

#165
post #33

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It strikes me as remarkable that, in a pandemic which killed several hundred airliners worth of Americans, a lot of fuss was made about mask-related impositions, while TSA-related impositions that save a number of lives that's close to zero have become entirely normal. All War On Terror and no War On Viruses.

The problem fundamentally with the mask debate is that surgical masks barely make a difference in transmission. If we were serious about mask wearing to prevent respiratory viral transmission, we would be wearing well-fit N95s like 3M Auras, which are virtually impossible to fit improperly and are way more comfortable than surgical masks. They are also far more effective at preventing airborne/droplet viral transmiss…

In the beginning everyone thought COVID is only droplet transmission and in that case regular masks work really well because it prevents someone carrying the virus from spreading dropdlets. It doesn't even have to be very tightly fitting because droplets will get attached to the fabric. Later there were some evidence that it can become aeresol in some high concentration situations like hospitals, but for all practical purposes in everyday life its droplet.

The problem is not that they are ineffective but that people followed them poorly. I've seen countless people wearing them super ineffectively like leaving their nose completely out, and many people when they wear surgical masks they don't bend the metal bar to fit to their nose and instead basically have like a canopy instead of a mask which of course doesn't do much.

Re: U.S. fines airlines more than $7M for not providing refunds

#166

Earlier quoted context omitted.

We had flights cancelled — they gave us a "voucher", not our money back. The voucher apparently expires so we had to use it or lose it. Also, the voucher was only good for the ticketed passengers it affected, so we could not use it for one of our daughters, for example. Also, when we did try to use it we were told it was not valid for many of the seats/tickets we were trying to book. Where it was valid: upgraded (bus…

I think you just play the call to complain game there. They have to give you like for like; if you bought the flight with a voucher that expires, sure, refund it with a voucher that expires. But if you bought with cash, they should give you cash back. In my experience (at 800k lifetime miles at this point), the squeaky wheel gets the grease. If you're not happy with something, call to complain.

Frontier can be really cheap, I've gotten trips from New York to Miami for $39. It's just not worth 4 hours on the phone for a $39 refund.

Re: U.S. fines airlines more than $7M for not providing refunds

#167
post #99

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes so strict that we don't even do the shoe thing or the crotch grab thing here.

While I agree that the US is stricter, the EU has gotten strict as well. There are millimeter-wave scanners in many airports (usually mandatory with an opt-out pat-down, but in some airports you have a chance to just go through the metal detectors), sometimes they make you take your shoes off, X-raying takes ages. The US is stricter only in the sense that the TSA is everywhere all the time, whereas in Europe it's onl…

> At least in Europe you don't have some highschool dropout rifle through your luggage and leave your suitcase open, though (that's happened to me in the US).

No but the people putting the suitcase - that you had to take apart yourself - through the scanner will steal things from you - my credit card and powerbank went missing during the process this summer.

Re: U.S. fines airlines more than $7M for not providing refunds

#168
post #26
post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They are the scum of the universe. If you don't pay for your seats, they will separate you and your party even if there are available seats together, because they know you'll shell out cash to fix it. (I think American does this now too, and possibly others but I haven't confirmed they also do it when there's available seats).

I'm actually fairly upset when airlines _don't_ do this. They're just leaving money on the table. If you want to pick your seat, pay for it.

100% agreed. On my last flight where a family sat together without paying, I was literally crying and shaking. 'This isn't how capitalism works!' I cried out, but the flight attendant wouldn't have any of it.

I don't know how you managed, but on my next flight with families who dodge valid charges, I will raise my plastic cup to you good sir.

Re: U.S. fines airlines more than $7M for not providing refunds

#169

Earlier quoted context omitted.

My time, energy, and inner peace is more valuable than the loss I've incurred ($300) and the mental anguish of waiting for hours to get a customer support person to issue me a refund (someone who has probably been instructed to resist giving me back my money) Vowing to never use their business again (so my loss is limited to a one-time event) and recommending everyone to do the same has worked out pretty well for me…

Also, there are potentially plenty of costs that can't be recouped when a flight gets canceled. I have an 8 day vacation coming up with my lodging and rental car prepaid and non-refundable at this point. Delta has already changed my flight once in a way that would have cost me two days at my destination. I was able to reroute and actually ended up with a better schedule than my original flight but if they cancel or c…

Large non-cancelable expenses are probably one area where travel insurance can make sense. When you can mostly unwind things in light of travel disruptions, illness, etc. mostly not. (Or, when you can, maybe make refundable reservations even if there's something of a premium.)

Re: U.S. fines airlines more than $7M for not providing refunds

#170
post #133

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Airport security was much better when it was private security not government security. At least privately security had alignment with airport customer service. Airports just have to deal with TSA BS now. I like to remind people, especially kids that don't know different, that the TSA was imposed on us and air travel used to be so much better.

Better in that it was more effective?

More cost effective and answered to the business serving travelers. TSA answers to nobody and customer service is not even a priority. Private security that harassed, berated, and abused patrons would not be working private security for very long.

You will have to define effective to tell if TSA or private security is better. TSA is an effective hinderance on travel, jobs program, and public money funnel for scanner companies. Private security was more effective at scaling security for the risk and trying to be a minimal hinderance to travelers.

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