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The end of Apple’s affair with China

economist.com

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Re: The end of Apple’s affair with China

#161

Post by fomine3 »

gjsman-1000 wrote: post #13

To me, I think that Apple's reliance on China, and Taiwan, was and is an extremely risky and misguided decision. Imagine if Apple had developed a total reliance on chip factories built in, say, Ukraine, back in 2018. That's about where we are now with Taiwan and China, I believe. It's sure been profitable - but at, I would argue, obscene risk. A few years of TSMC being unavailable would have Apple on life support. Ap…

So the alternative is Samsung fab located in South Korea. Technically Korean war isn't ended and North Korea actively developing missiles.

Re: The end of Apple’s affair with China

#162

Post by makeitdouble »

joezydeco wrote: post #75
makeitdouble wrote: post #37

I tried looking around to get how much of the iPhones are actually made in India and couldn’t find any clear information. Apple seems to be relying on Foxconn’s Indian subsidiary, and it is described as an assembly partner, so I’d expect all the parts and chips to be coming from neighboring countries (so mostly China?) It is still a pretty big deal, but my assumption would be that aside from the trumpeting headlines,…

You're talking about turning a ship 10000x the size of the Titanic. A company like Apple with a CEO that built his career on logistics and production? You can be sure there's a plan. You just aren't allowed to see it.

That's very generous to Apple. They have a history of success, but for better or worse we're in uncharted territory. I mean, if the transition takes 10+ years, wil Tim Cook even be at the helm as it happens ?

BTW I didn't mean my comment as a critique of Apple, I think they did get everything right on the logistics side given what has been hapenning for the last decade (they weren't immune, but they clearly navigated it extremely well). But I would be warry of being too optimistic on their diversification efforts or looking at it as a done deal.

Kinda reminds me of the effort to have the Mac Pro assembled in the US. A lot of people were looking at it im very simple terms, when it's a really difficult thing to do in any viable economical fashion.

Re: The end of Apple’s affair with China

#163

Post by makeitdouble »

Kon-Peki wrote: post #134
makeitdouble wrote: post #37

I tried looking around to get how much of the iPhones are actually made in India and couldn’t find any clear information. Apple seems to be relying on Foxconn’s Indian subsidiary, and it is described as an assembly partner, so I’d expect all the parts and chips to be coming from neighboring countries (so mostly China?) It is still a pretty big deal, but my assumption would be that aside from the trumpeting headlines,…

My M1 Mac mini from 2020 says "Made in Malaysia" on it. The diversification has been happening longer than many people believe.

To note, the "made in xxxx" denomination can be pretty fuzzy. You can source pre-assembled/fully functional blocks from anywhere, put it in the final enclosing at the last destination, and stamp it as made there.

Countries can be more or less strict about what threshold needs to be passed to be accepted as made locally, but I'd expect Malaysia to not be against computers production getting attributed to them.

Re: The end of Apple’s affair with China

#164

Post by trevyn »

Bakary wrote: post #97
trevyn wrote: post #68

Earlier quoted context omitted.

At the end of the day, the goal is to enjoy a data sequence that exists in the world. If someone thinks that they can “own” a data sequence on the internet, and labored to produce it based on that belief, that’s unfortunate.

Your money is also a data sequence on the internet, but you might miss it if it were gone. I don't necessarily see a problem with looking at things this way, but the end result is that we have extremely powerful adtech companies, the deterioration of journalism (not that it was great to begin with), predatory business models, an attention economy, harder lives for artists, otherwise great projects killed, etc. I'm aw…

There are plenty of data sequences that people create for their own reasons, and then intentionally give away.

I would have no problem if all other data sequences were no longer created.

Re: The end of Apple’s affair with China

#165

Post by Terretta »

biztos wrote: post #155
bergenty wrote: post #131

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It makes a difference though. The Indian factories hire all Indian staff and this makes it resilient to any trade war issues that may arise between China and the U.S.

I realize the US-India tech relationship is very resilient, but don’t Indian companies run the same risk in principle by staffing the contract shops in Country X with Indians?

This is one problem with the BRICS narrative.

Re: The end of Apple’s affair with China

#166

Post by Apocryphon »

dragonwriter wrote: post #130
Apocryphon wrote: post #74

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes they have a large and considerably upgraded military, but border skirmishes and planting flags on unpopulated rocks are hardly comparable to Russia’s recent post-Cold War military experience. The point is how the PLA would fare in an actual war is far from known yet. As far as the Soviet military went, the fallout of that buildup, and the actual condition of the Red Army, are known after the fact now.

> Yes they have a large and considerably upgraded military, but border skirmishes and planting flags on unpopulated rocks are hardly comparable to Russia’s recent post-Cold War military experience. Skirmishing against a near-peer like India is probably better preparation for a large scale war against a well-financed enemy with modern equipment, doctrine, and Western support than Russia’s wars against lesser former So…

Were they actually "skirmishing" though? I thought it was mostly border guards scuffling, even engaging in hand-to-hand combat at one point.

Re: The end of Apple’s affair with China

#167

Post by dontbenebby »

gambiting wrote: post #70
dontbenebby wrote: post #61

This isn't news -- Apple opened factories in a bunch of SE Asian countries IIRC, and now stands poised to play them off each other since the old model of showing up and being shocked there are human rights abuses in... not just Xinjiang. Apple's real affair, along with the rest of the tech industry, is with countries like Ireland and Austria are "neutral" in the sense that they allowed untaxed gains to flow into them…

>>who seemed to have gone full Pirates of Silicon Valley and stolen the good features from iOS .......I'm sorry, what? It seems like iOS is "stealing" features from Android every few years, they basically let Samsung and others implement something first, improve it for a couple iterations, then finally they add it to iOS and say "look this is a massive step for iOS!", and I'm sitting there being like......we've had t…

>.......I'm sorry, what? It seems like iOS is "stealing" features from Android every few years, they basically let Samsung and others implement something first, improve it for a couple iterations, then finally they add it to iOS and say "look this is a massive step for iOS!"

Who knows -- there may have been a time where one was superior and the other inferior but slowly pilfering features, but for right now moving from iOS to Android is like an American considering emigration...

(Where you gonna go... Montreal? If I rolled my eyes any harder, my retinas would literally detach.)

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