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Ubuntu 22.10 Kinetic Kudu

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Re: Ubuntu 22.10 Kinetic Kudu

#161

Post by MichaelCollins »

brnt wrote: post #70
pantalaimon wrote: post #52

Earlier quoted context omitted.

eh Fedora requires many additional steps to get hardware accelerated video decoding or proprietary drivers working. With Ubuntu it's all out of the box.

Seconded. Fedora is very much NOT an all-ready-out-of-the-box experience, unless you are a FLOSS dev.

You don't need to be a developer, the average computer enthusiast is capable of googling the matter figuring it out. It may not be appropriate for the "colloquial grandmother" sort of user, but you certainly don't need to be a computer programmer to figure it out. There's a lot of ground in-between those.

My dad is a retired accountant and a computer enthusiast since the 80s. Never a programmer, but he does this kind of stuff. Has managed his own linux installations for about 15 years.

Re: Ubuntu 22.10 Kinetic Kudu

#162

Post by Mikeb85 »

The Ubuntu Pro ads and this release have all come at an interesting time...

Fedora and the stock Gnome eco-system are getting better and better... Debian voting to include non-free software. Google is using Debian for things these days, Steam switching to Arch...

For myself, I'm now using OpenSUSE MicroOS (immutable root OS, everything else is containerized with Flatpak or Toolbox/Podman, repos based on Tumbleweed) and it really feels like the future (Fedora Silverblue is very similar). I thought that would be the direction Ubuntu takes but now it feels like Ubuntu is in some weird zone where lots of things are snaps, lots aren't, they're pushing Pro services with ads, it's getting more enterprise-y but they're also pushing containerized Steam, etc...

That being said Ubuntu's always been a good experience so I'm sure it'll be fine but the direction they're taking is rather curious...

Re: Ubuntu 22.10 Kinetic Kudu

#163

Post by huggingmouth »

5e92cb50239222b wrote: post #157
ctoth wrote: post #148

I'm not sure precisely why, but when I first saw ads in Apt(8) I decided I wouldn't be using Ubuntu for any more personal projects. On one hand they obviously need to keep the project alive. On the other hand, putting your own ads on top of something that fundamental to the system just felt ... weird/narsty? Reading state information... Done Calculating upgrade... Done Try Ubuntu Pro beta with a free personal subscri…

Jump to Debian. It has always worked towards users' interests, and probably will continue doing that because pretty much all developers are volunteers and are running a democratically driven development process. I never understood why Ubuntu is so popular because it's 99.99% Debian, and only gives you a handful of things on top of that: predictable release schedule (which is a two-edged sword if you think about it),…

Made the jump and couldn't be happier. One thing I noticed to keep in mind: Debian doesn't seem to be as proactive nor expansive as ununtu when it comes to security updates. I'm subscribed to both dsa and usn mailing lists and the updates conancal puts out are far more numerous and timely.

Also, debians unattended upgrades packages leaves a lot of packages unupdated by default.

Lastely, ubuntu releases have a well-defined and known life span. You know exacly what date support will end. Not so with Debian.

If you're like me and willing to deal with these shortcomings, then I highly recommend switching to Debian!

Re: Ubuntu 22.10 Kinetic Kudu

#164

Post by gauddasa »

akvadrako wrote: post #102
overshard wrote: post #5

I used to use Ubuntu for everything and was very happy in the massive Ubuntu ecosystem with a .deb for everything till I was forced to use Snap a few releases ago for installing even some basic utils I used on a daily basis. I then had Snap constantly hang on installs and just break for no apparent reason and waste my time debugging it. It didn't "just work" anymore. Swapped to Arch and haven't looked back yet, Arch…

You don't have to use Snap at all. I've been using latest Ubuntu for a few years and I just uninstall it after every major upgrade. I do use flatpak for a lot of stuff, but it's better than Snap in many ways: it's faster, you can upgrade while apps are running, it allows third party repos, etc...

And also, you do not need administrative privilege to install Flatpak apps. Snap mandates administrative privilege. The only downside is accessing utilities from frameworks using command line is difficult and tricky in Flatpak.

Re: Ubuntu 22.10 Kinetic Kudu

#165

Post by fhd2 »

everybodyknows wrote: post #80
CoastalCoder wrote: post #26

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Maybe I should give Pop OS a try... I'm a big fan: it's like Ubuntu, but with much of Canonical's divisive changes reverted, and with a few other improvements. I switched from Ubuntu to Pop!_OS a few releases back when I got a System76 computer. (I also use it on my Lenovo laptop.)

Does System76 have a sustainable business? My concern would be putting time invested into their tech, then later finding support gone wrong.

Recently converted to their hardware after a rather long line of Macbooks. Completely happy - everything. just. works. First Linux laptop I've had where I didn't need to fiddle with anything, way less than macOS.

Regarding their business model, they do design the laptops (even if they don't produce them themselves), but I get their impression their competitive edge are two different things:

1. Branding/marketing (to non-mainstream users, but we're talking about them right now, so I guess it's working)

2. Software: Ensuring everything works smoothly. It's not just firmware and drivers - having their own distribution seems quite key, otherwise it's trickier to cater to _their_ users needs. Keeping it close to the most popular distributions seems smart to me.

Pop OS clearly is a big deal for (2), but I think it even contributes to (1). Since they make money (apparently sustainably so) from selling hardware, and given that it appears Pop OS is an important driver of that business, I'd wager it's not going anywhere as long as they have a working hardware business.

Re: Ubuntu 22.10 Kinetic Kudu

#166

Post by huggingmouth »

mrighele wrote: post #136
binwiederhier wrote: post #115

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I've been on Ubuntu 22.04 for a few weeks now, and every now and then Firefox will create a popup notification that says "Firefox needs to be closed to update (12 days left)". When I close it and re-open, Firefox is still not updated. Even when I go to the Software Center and update all apps, it apparently doesn't update snaps. I'm not entirely sure if Firefox is updateable via the UI. It's truly awful; and that's co…

Ubuntu 22.04, got fed up with snap firefox, removed it and installed it from a ppa, pinning appropriately I still get notifications that to update the snap ai need to close firefox, so I wonder what is really happening…

I uninstalled the snap version and installed the flatpak one. No more lying pop-ups (I close firefox but it never updates when I reopen it).

Bonus, I don't need to be root to update it!

Re: Ubuntu 22.10 Kinetic Kudu

#167

Post by chevdev »

5e92cb50239222b wrote: post #157
ctoth wrote: post #148

I'm not sure precisely why, but when I first saw ads in Apt(8) I decided I wouldn't be using Ubuntu for any more personal projects. On one hand they obviously need to keep the project alive. On the other hand, putting your own ads on top of something that fundamental to the system just felt ... weird/narsty? Reading state information... Done Calculating upgrade... Done Try Ubuntu Pro beta with a free personal subscri…

Jump to Debian. It has always worked towards users' interests, and probably will continue doing that because pretty much all developers are volunteers and are running a democratically driven development process. I never understood why Ubuntu is so popular because it's 99.99% Debian, and only gives you a handful of things on top of that: predictable release schedule (which is a two-edged sword if you think about it),…

Ubuntu was nice because, when it came out, Debian was several years out of date without having done a release. Ubuntu promised to do smaller, incremental releases and do LTS versions as well which is a promise they have kept. I remember trying Debian and having the choice of installing an old ass version of a program or setting up their leading edge version, which often caused problems with system stability. Ubuntu was a good balance - they had new software versions that worked.

Not only that but for a long time their default gnome configuration worked very well (back when they had the top and bottom panel thing). Debian very much threw you into it and said "Here's Gnome, have fun!" and you had to spend hours on a second computer learning how to install a browser and configure it (and go through multiple iterations of startx failing because your config was not right, because you were learning stuff).

I don't use either any more - most of my linux use is on Raspberry Pi OS, WSL, or in some container or something.

Re: Ubuntu 22.10 Kinetic Kudu

#169

Post by aliqot »

brnt wrote: post #75
aliqot wrote: post #23

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Let me start by saying Debian rolling release is the truth. That being said, I worry about the archaic community and contributor-tooling behind debian to be a barrier that will lead to its demise though. Makes me sad, but it is what it is. We are all getting old, and to us this interface looks normal, but to new people and those making the apps that the kids depend on, it looks like a shitshow of antiquated code. Nob…

I've also heard criticism of .deb being much more cumbersome than .rpm. Fedora is not my first choice, Debian is, but they are more new-dev friendly. Maybe Debian needs to port itself to use rpms and Fedora tooling.

Making the package generally isn't very difficult in comparison to flatpak, appimage, rpm. The problem is the old dusty path to getting a mentor/sponsor for your little insignificant utility to get introduced into the repos. Every doc/page you see will have swaths of (sometimes old) information that outlines endless procedure and arcane incantations required to find someone who may be online and not idle, who might just vouch for you... or they might endlessly critique your code and license.

This whole process worked great back in the day, but now the kids will just go somewhere else or release outside of repositories.

I know Ubuntu loves the smell of their own codes, but part of me thinks PPA was Canonical's way to address how difficult and crusty the process to get software into Debian is. To this day if you can get in Debian repos, Ubuntu will include you in theirs 'for free'.

I feel so bad saying this.. Debian was supposed to be The One, imo. I've been at this linux thing since the mid 90s, I could not have predicted the current state of things decades ago. It truly disappoints me that things have gone this wrong with modern Linux, but I can't say it had a chance to play out any other way. You see the same with cryptocurrency (gasp!) where in order to achieve legitimacy in the eyes of the opposition a novel industry sought to emulate the legacy systems enough to be familiar and charm the opposing users, but ended up gaining users sold on that dream who lo and behold demanded an effigy to their old systems. We brought this on ourselves.

Now we have Ubuntu aiming to be the new Microsoft at an org level, aesthetically emulating MacOS at a UI level, and meanwhile pretending to be a crossplatform user experience perfect for phone and desktop. I call bullshit. Ubuntu took the dark path after 10.04 and 10.10 when Ubuntu Netbook Remix first reared its ugly head. Someone misunderstood the instructions, fed it after midnight, and now it's achieved its final form- Unity.

This is 100% our fault, my generations fault. We didn't keep with the times and I don't see that changing fast enough.

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