Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

FBI Monitored Aretha Franklin for Years, File Shows

nytimes.com

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

161–170 of 276 posts

Re: FBI Monitored Aretha Franklin for Years, File Shows

#161

Post by themitigating »

dvngnt_ wrote: post #141
themitigating wrote: post #122

How many people would care that the FBI was monitoring her of they didn't raid Trump

AF is a private citizen, Trump is an elected official, and the head of the executive branch. I would expect them to always be monitored

That's not what my comment said. People are mad because they like Trump, he was investigated by the FBI , therefore anything negative that comes out about the FBI is amplified. It lets Trump supporters pretend it's not about him.

The FBI following civil rights activists had been known for years. They tracked MLK for example

Re: FBI Monitored Aretha Franklin for Years, File Shows

#162

Post by sodality2 »

lp0_on_fire wrote: post #148
techwizrd wrote: post #138

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't believe this is the case, but I am also not a lawyer. The _actual_ wording of 18 USC § 1001 is "[...] knowingly and willfully" "(1) falsifies, conceals, or covers up by any trick, scheme, or device a material fact; (2) makes any materially false, fictitious, or fraudulent statement or representation; [...]" [0], not simply "providing false statements." The DOJ must show that the statement was false, the fact…

That's all well and good for the DOJ, which has virtually unlimited time and funding with an army of lawyers. No so much for regular Joe who is caught in the position OP discussed. The threat of legal action alone is enough to scare _most_ people in this country because they simply can't afford it.

By that logic, if the law doesn’t actually matter, a regular police officer could also simply threaten the same thing, and there’s nothing differentiating them with the FBI. In both cases it would scare most people because they can’t afford it.

Re: FBI Monitored Aretha Franklin for Years, File Shows

#163

Post by hericium »

firmnoodle wrote: post #155
hericium wrote: post #136

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> The FBI is more or less a legalized criminal organization that is funded by U.S. taxpayers, but is unelected and unaccountable to them This kinda reads like a description of the CIA. How many of these have you got there?

I think he's talking about the domestic operations. I would agree that the CIA and their sister organizations who operate internationally fit the description as well. Can't torture someone, well, take them to a friendly place where your buddy can torture them. Need to plant some FUD on a person? "an anonymous source in the intelligence community said that X did Y in Z." Unelected, Unaccountable and unchecked in every…

Frank Olson's[1] death is an example of possible/alleged CIA's internal operation. There are numerous other cases like this.

[1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Frank_Olson

Re: FBI Monitored Aretha Franklin for Years, File Shows

#164

Post by yamtaddle »

pclmulqdq wrote: post #82
fsociety999 wrote: post #62

The FBI is more or less a legalized criminal organization that is funded by U.S. taxpayers, but is unelected and unaccountable to them. This article is from 2013, but I haven’t seen anything to suggest that this behavior has changed: https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/nation/2013/08/04/fbi-in... The important part to consider: > The FBI gave its informants permission to break the law at least 5,658 times in a single…

Governments are basically the mob, except that they figured out that they can exert more control over a longer period of time if they have documents that "constrain" their powers and they offer you a say in some matters. Every year, I pay the US government protection money at a higher rate than the mob demanded (~35% vs ~15%). They mark their territory, control who enters and exits, and demand compliance with their r…

> Governments are basically the mob, except that they figured out that they can exert more control over a longer period of time if they have documents that "constrain" their powers and they offer you a say in some matters.

God is love.

Love is blind.

Ray Charles is blind.

Ray Charles is God.

Re: FBI Monitored Aretha Franklin for Years, File Shows

#165

Post by micromacrofoot »

prange wrote: post #121
micromacrofoot wrote: post #75

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why would that matter? he's not president

He and a large number of his supporters contest that, and believe he should run again. Independent polls suggest he would have a good chance of winning. He is probably the only person who might actually get to enact this policy, whereas nobody in the current administration is even talking about it. How could it be more relevant?

It could be more relevant if he were actually president, I suppose. This is just speculation about something that would be nearly 3 years away at best.

I similary don't care about what the president in 2029 thinks.

Re: FBI Monitored Aretha Franklin for Years, File Shows

#166

Post by Supermancho »

sodality2 wrote: post #162
lp0_on_fire wrote: post #148

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's all well and good for the DOJ, which has virtually unlimited time and funding with an army of lawyers. No so much for regular Joe who is caught in the position OP discussed. The threat of legal action alone is enough to scare _most_ people in this country because they simply can't afford it.

By that logic, if the law doesn’t actually matter, a regular police officer could also simply threaten the same thing, and there’s nothing differentiating them with the FBI. In both cases it would scare most people because they can’t afford it.

That is the current state of the US law enforcement (2022). What's interesting about extortion by law enforcement, is that they are not held accountable for describing things that are not true. It's not extortion, if a hypothetical situation is presented as an investigatory method and goes no further.

Re: FBI Monitored Aretha Franklin for Years, File Shows

#167

Post by yieldcrv »

fsociety999 wrote: post #62

The FBI is more or less a legalized criminal organization that is funded by U.S. taxpayers, but is unelected and unaccountable to them. This article is from 2013, but I haven’t seen anything to suggest that this behavior has changed: https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/nation/2013/08/04/fbi-in... The important part to consider: > The FBI gave its informants permission to break the law at least 5,658 times in a single…

Just in case stories like this dont negatively affect your view of law enforcement, think of it this way:

There is a fixed number of people who can have their rights violated before the population doesn’t have confidence in law enforcement.

And thats what we are seeing now.

Re: FBI Monitored Aretha Franklin for Years, File Shows

#168

Post by iudqnolq »

arcticfox wrote: post #156
iudqnolq wrote: post #124

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A randomly selected citizen has a smaller chance being abused by the police in any rich country and nearly any poor country. People can point to horrible police misconduct cases in other countries, but you need an immense amount of police misconduct to reach American levels. Here's a list of the top ten countries ranked by police killings per year. Note this isn't adjusted by population. Note also that the other coun…

Why did you specifically select the non-population adjusted list? Top 10 Countries with the Highest Rate of Police Killings (per 10 million residents — U.S. ranks 33rd): - Venezuela — 1829.9 (2018) - El Salvador — 1703.8 (2017) - Syria — 819 (2019) - Philippines — 556.5 (2016-21 avg) - Nicaragua — 522.7 (2018) - Jamaica — 472.7 (2018) - Trinidad and Tobago — 339.7 (2014) - Brazil — 276.2 (2019) - Bahamas — 275.7 (201…

Why did you specifically select the portion of that list that doesn't include the US? It shows the US is far worse than any rich country, as I claimed.

Mexico, Rwanda, Sudan, and Mali rank 34-37

https://worldpopulationreview.com/country-rankings/police-ki...

Edit: The closest rich countries are

- Malta, at ~2/3 the US

- Luxumberg, ~ 1/2

- Canada, ~1/3

Malta is notably an anomaly: I can't think of any other rich democracy where journalists reporting on on government links to organized crime get killed by car bombs.

Re: FBI Monitored Aretha Franklin for Years, File Shows

#169

Post by bigbacaloa »

pclmulqdq wrote: post #133
yummypaint wrote: post #130

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This takes me back to conversations in the middle school cafeteria. When was the last time you had to bribe a US official to get basic tasks done like register your car? In places that actually have criminal governments this is the norm. Do some research about what it's like in places where there is truly no mechanism for people to remove those in power. Look at russia and the mechanisms by which decisions are made a…

Even in places that have reasonably good and democratic government, officials take bribes. This happens in Italy, Greece, Spain, India, and many more (almost all of South and Central America). The US and UK are pretty unique in that they aggressively prevent low-level corruption.

There is no routine bribe paying in Spain. What occurs is similar to what occurs in the US - bribes to get government contracts. Day to day bribes are unheard of and Spain is no more corrupt than the US in that sense (in fact, probably less so - I know of people having to pay small "fees" at a county sheriff's office to get some routine document processed).
Post reply on HN