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FBI Monitored Aretha Franklin for Years, File Shows

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Re: FBI Monitored Aretha Franklin for Years, File Shows

#151

Post by the_optimist »

prange wrote: post #60
the_only_law wrote: post #57

Earlier quoted context omitted.

And when the FBI blatantly ignores the law? I’d have a lot less of a problem with some of these federal agencies if they’d prosecute the criminals in their own ranks.

That does seem like Trump’s position - wrongdoing at the FBI means they shouldn’t investigate politicians like him. https://www.huffpost.com/entry/trump-truth-social-fbi-mar-a-... [Edit: Added a link for those who don’t follow news about trump.]

This doesn't "seem" like anyone's position, neither stated explicitly nor implied. You've invented this.

Re: FBI Monitored Aretha Franklin for Years, File Shows

#152

Post by Natsu »

jstarfish wrote: post #108
RetpolineDrama wrote: post #91

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They also have the seemingly unique and blatantly unconstitutional power to imprison you for ""lying"" to them. The actual wording/charge is "providing false statements", which means anything that they can later suggest is untrue . This is why you should never, ever speak with anyone associated with the FBI even if they are being "friendly". Say they knock at the door and have questions for you about your shady neigh…

Do you have any credible examples of any of this actually happening? The only times I've ever seen this card played is as punishment for deliberately misleading agents and wasting their time, not getting inconsequential facts wrong. ...like the high-profile Gabby Petito murder case, where Brian Laundrie's parents lied to investigators to conceal their son's whereabouts after the murder. Or that other recent one where…

Read some of Ken White's older writings, he's been complaining that there's no materiality requirement to 18 USC 1001 for years and that it's been used to manufacture new charges via questioning.

There's also the matter that FBI policy is NOT to record interviews, so there's only an FD-302 saying you lied and nobody can see what you actually said, only what the FBI heard.

Re: FBI Monitored Aretha Franklin for Years, File Shows

#153

Post by the_optimist »

themitigating wrote: post #109
the_optimist wrote: post #92

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Maybe he noticed this problem before you did. Something to do with the time they offered $1M to a foreign national to find evidence incriminating him. They didn't get anything, promised FISA court they did, and enabled political opponents to tap global historical messaging databases, two-hop unlimited.

Proof

Danchenko transcripts are out today. Check the court docs, don't be lazy.

Re: FBI Monitored Aretha Franklin for Years, File Shows

#154

Post by CabSauce »

pclmulqdq wrote: post #82
fsociety999 wrote: post #62

The FBI is more or less a legalized criminal organization that is funded by U.S. taxpayers, but is unelected and unaccountable to them. This article is from 2013, but I haven’t seen anything to suggest that this behavior has changed: https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/nation/2013/08/04/fbi-in... The important part to consider: > The FBI gave its informants permission to break the law at least 5,658 times in a single…

Governments are basically the mob, except that they figured out that they can exert more control over a longer period of time if they have documents that "constrain" their powers and they offer you a say in some matters. Every year, I pay the US government protection money at a higher rate than the mob demanded (~35% vs ~15%). They mark their territory, control who enters and exits, and demand compliance with their r…

Except for that whole voting thing. The "government", in a functioning democracy, is us.

Re: FBI Monitored Aretha Franklin for Years, File Shows

#155

Post by firmnoodle »

hericium wrote: post #136
fsociety999 wrote: post #62

The FBI is more or less a legalized criminal organization that is funded by U.S. taxpayers, but is unelected and unaccountable to them. This article is from 2013, but I haven’t seen anything to suggest that this behavior has changed: https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/nation/2013/08/04/fbi-in... The important part to consider: > The FBI gave its informants permission to break the law at least 5,658 times in a single…

> The FBI is more or less a legalized criminal organization that is funded by U.S. taxpayers, but is unelected and unaccountable to them This kinda reads like a description of the CIA. How many of these have you got there?

I think he's talking about the domestic operations. I would agree that the CIA and their sister organizations who operate internationally fit the description as well. Can't torture someone, well, take them to a friendly place where your buddy can torture them. Need to plant some FUD on a person? "an anonymous source in the intelligence community said that X did Y in Z." Unelected, Unaccountable and unchecked in every way.

Re: FBI Monitored Aretha Franklin for Years, File Shows

#156

Post by arcticfox »

iudqnolq wrote: post #124
bell-cot wrote: post #107

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Um, yes - bad cops are bad, and there are plenty of bad cops. Very bad. Might anyone point to an example (current or historical) of a large, complex, socially diverse society which has managed to tightly control actually-serious crime, while also managing to keep the "bad cop stuff" well below the level which America has been stuck with in the past ~half of a century?

A randomly selected citizen has a smaller chance being abused by the police in any rich country and nearly any poor country. People can point to horrible police misconduct cases in other countries, but you need an immense amount of police misconduct to reach American levels. Here's a list of the top ten countries ranked by police killings per year. Note this isn't adjusted by population. Note also that the other coun…

Why did you specifically select the non-population adjusted list?

Top 10 Countries with the Highest Rate of Police Killings (per 10 million residents — U.S. ranks 33rd):

  - Venezuela — 1829.9 (2018)
  - El Salvador — 1703.8 (2017)
  - Syria — 819 (2019)
  - Philippines — 556.5 (2016-21 avg)
  - Nicaragua — 522.7 (2018)
  - Jamaica — 472.7 (2018)
  - Trinidad and Tobago — 339.7 (2014)
  - Brazil — 276.2 (2019)
  - Bahamas — 275.7 (2018)
  - Saint Vincent and the Grenadines — 181.8 (2018)

Re: FBI Monitored Aretha Franklin for Years, File Shows

#157

Post by themitigating »

pclmulqdq wrote: post #150
themitigating wrote: post #129

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Would you consider the EU to have a large amount of regulations but those countries are generally doing well. I would say there's a correlation between less government and worse living conditions on average

> I would say there's a correlation between less government and worse living conditions on average I think this is true, but I don't think the correlation is causal. Rich countries throughout history have tended to grow their governments after becoming rich by adopting social programs and trying to flex their muscle internationally. Most of Europe followed this model, as did the US.

So post ww2 for the US? We've still one of the best counties to live in.

Edit. Are you claiming social programs are created to flex your country? Do you have proof of this?

Re: FBI Monitored Aretha Franklin for Years, File Shows

#158

Post by Banyonite »

dd36 wrote: post #89
mansion7 wrote: post #76

Earlier quoted context omitted.

We do know that at least two FBI agents were found to have conspired against him during his first campaign. We also know that an FBI attorney falsified information to get warrants against his campaign advisor. We know that the FBI urged the media to actually censor negative news about his political opponents. It would be difficult to them trust such an organization to them perform fair investigations against you afte…

Two FBI agents conspired against him? According to who? Trump? Investigating leads is conspiring against you? I don’t know the veracity of the claim that the FBI told the media to censor negative news. The media was definitely on guard for being manipulated following the DNC/Podesta email hacking and use of media by Russia in 2016. And so were our counterintelligence agencies. It’s literally their job.

Could be wrong, and not about to get into a back and forth about the politics involved, but I thought that Deputy Assistant Director Strzok was removed from the Mueller investigation and eventually canned from the FBI, and FBI attorney Lisa Page was let go because of the content of the messages between them regarding Trump and Flynn that surfaced during the course of some hearings. If memory serves, another FBI lawyer plead guilty to altering a document sent to the secret FISA court so a false justification would exist for someone in the new administration to be surveilled. I think the lawyer got a suspended sentence instead of prison.

Not focused either way on Trump, just thought that there actually was something to the GPs post.

Edit: Wasn't it Zuckerberg himself that said the FBI reached out to him about limiting the visibility of certain news?

Re: FBI Monitored Aretha Franklin for Years, File Shows

#159

Post by Natsu »

jmull wrote: post #74
theandrewbailey wrote: post #2

Defund the FBI, CIA, NSA, ATF, and DEA. They've proven themselves to cause more trouble than to solve problems.

I know this is more of an emotional response than a serious proposal, but I'll take the opportunity to point out: Black-and-white thinking leads to very inefficient outcomes. That is, it makes a lot more sense to reign-in, reform, and redirect intelligence and policing agencies than get rid of them. I think we want to work on how to align their interests -- as individual agents, intermediate commanding officers, and…

Yeah, just removing them wouldn't solve much.

But there are other possible reforms, for example, I'd want them to record all interviews (which is currently against policy last I knew) instead of relying on FD-302s.

And I'd like their case management system put under the control of an independent agency that will audit for things like missing Woods files, so they can't just go "oops" on stuff like that. And if they delete something, someone else gets to restore it from backup and report to the courts who did the deletion and when according to the audit logs.

I'd do similar things with police body cam footage. It should not be under the control of the police and if someone has a habit of never turning theirs on, it should be addressed and the cop reprimanded long before it impacts a case.

Same goes for jail footage, as well. So "oops" Epstein's cell camera died just can't be a thing, because it's not under their control at all and they address such things right away, not just when it's a problem.

Re: FBI Monitored Aretha Franklin for Years, File Shows

#160

Post by themitigating »

notch656a wrote: post #134
themitigating wrote: post #128

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If you have a problem with the Italian Mafia can you take them to court or have your elected representatives do something about it? What a ridiculous comparison

The average person can do more to influence a local mafia boss than they can to influence the federal government. Hell if you have a few dozen friends with guns you can actually stop the mafia from fucking with you for as long as they stick around. * Edit since I'm spent on replies : Sure you can name that one favela somewhere where a few dozen were beheaded by the mob. The idea isn't that you'll win 100% of the time…

So instead of lobbying with a group of citizens to get someone elected it's easier to start an armed attack on the mob leadership?

If you lose your dead, that's not the case in a democracy

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