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U.S. eliminates human controls requirement for fully automated vehicles

reuters.com

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Re: U.S. eliminates human controls requirement for fully automated vehicles

#161

Post by NovemberWhiskey »

dekhn wrote: post #152
bottled_poe wrote: post #69

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Statistical equivalence is one thing, but the risk will shift within the population. Let’s set the bar a bit higher than above average ? The average driver is a dumbass. autonomous vehicles should be expected to consistently make better decisions than the best drivers, not just the average ones.

I would be perfectly happy if we had automatic drivers that were as good as the average human driver, since I already integrated and accepted that risk and accept it every time I drive. Why raise the bar for a new technology if that risks preventing it from being widely deployed and relentlessly improved?

I would probably accept technology that's as good as the median driver.

Re: U.S. eliminates human controls requirement for fully automated vehicles

#162

Post by NovemberWhiskey »

bushbaba wrote: post #114
nindalf wrote: post #102

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Could you share how many accidents happen, rather than deaths? With a source as well, if you happen to be looking it up.

Would you use an autonomous car if the death rate increases but accident rate decreases? I figure deaths per million miles is a good stat

This isn't that hard. Let's say loss of quality-adjusted life years due to accidents or something.

Re: U.S. eliminates human controls requirement for fully automated vehicles

#163

Post by warmwaffles »

dahfizz wrote: post #117
warmwaffles wrote: post #76

Earlier quoted context omitted.

IF the car does hit the children even while driving autonomously the driver will be held responsible regardless of overrides. If someone dies, someone is going to jail until the justice system works through it.

Did you read the article? There is literally no steering wheel in an autonomous car. There is no "driver", only passengers. Even then, the car could drive itself without any passengers.

I was responding to the parent above me. Not the article.

Re: U.S. eliminates human controls requirement for fully automated vehicles

#164

Post by ClumsyPilot »

goodpoint wrote: post #145
snarf21 wrote: post #86

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I agree that there is a significant monetary incentive to "move fast and kill people". In the end, paying out a few $MM to random families is financially minimal compared to the $BBB that are up for grabs. We will never really have executives going to jail for things like this. We've built a system of profits > anything else.

This has been the status quo for the whole car industry for decades. If executives were jailed for car accidents people we would have trains and trams in every corner.

Ordinary cars are testable, we understands quality of merials, corrosion, etc.

When it comes to AI droving, noone has a fucking clue what it will do in next 50 milliseconds. Teslas literally mis-classified a semi trailer for an underpass

The opportunity for shenanighans is endless

Re: U.S. eliminates human controls requirement for fully automated vehicles

#165

Post by NovemberWhiskey »

goodpoint wrote: post #145
snarf21 wrote: post #86

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I agree that there is a significant monetary incentive to "move fast and kill people". In the end, paying out a few $MM to random families is financially minimal compared to the $BBB that are up for grabs. We will never really have executives going to jail for things like this. We've built a system of profits > anything else.

This has been the status quo for the whole car industry for decades. If executives were jailed for car accidents people we would have trains and trams in every corner.

... and if makers of kitchen implements were jailed for knife accidents/crime then we'd be eating soup with plastic spoons for every meal.

It doesn't make sense to have universal product liability in that way: there are too many creative idiots.

Re: U.S. eliminates human controls requirement for fully automated vehicles

#166

Post by [deleted] »

forbiddenvoid wrote: post #125
digbybk wrote: post #110

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm not sure if I'm optimistic about autonomous vehicles or just very pessimistic about human drivers. I have no confidence that the next driver making a left turn while I'm crossing the road won't kill me. I'm much more comfortable with a computer that is programmed to avoid killing me, even if the software may have the occasional bug, than with a human who may or may not prioritize my life over whatever else it is…

Literally, when my dad taught me to drive, the first thing he told me was: 'Every other driver on the road is an idiot and a murderer. Act accordingly.'

[deleted]

Re: U.S. eliminates human controls requirement for fully automated vehicles

#167

Post by shkkmo »

ben_w wrote: post #104
api wrote: post #64

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm going to submit that some of these COVID protests are not COVID protests. They are inequality protests, but seriously talking about inequality has been pushed out of the Overton window across much of the American political landscape. As a result the anger "sublimates" out about other issues. The right does a good job guiding the anger of the working class toward issues that have nothing to do with inequality like…

I have a suspicion that housing will stop being a crisis due to a combination of: 1) the main expense is the land, the houses themselves are cheap, so anything that causes existing-but-undesirable houses to now be in a commuter zone increases useful supply 2) self-driving vehicles will allow people to commute while asleep or doing their hobbies (this is a terrible idea with current tech, people already get in trouble…

> self-driving vehicles will allow people to commute while asleep or doing their hobbies

This doesn't eliminate the traffic issues and energy consumption associated with long commutes. Self-driving cars are a substitute for the efficiency benefits of density.

If anything, the expansion of remote work has just pushed the housing crisis into more housing markets.

Re: U.S. eliminates human controls requirement for fully automated vehicles

#168

Post by willcipriano »

shadowgovt wrote: post #151
visarga wrote: post #128

Earlier quoted context omitted.

People will run out of jobs only when they run out of needs and desires.

Human psychology is, unfortunately, more complicated than that. There was an attempt in 2016 to prepare a program to retrain coal miners in center Pennsylvania and other traditional mining regions, as the general market, automation, and decrease in available coal from mining had made that a high-unemployment space. Job retraining was on the table. People handily rejected it. They didn't want to do something else; the…

What if I told you to quit your job and I'll get you training for another role. If you trusted me you might go with it, but it you knew from previous experience that I was an incompetent buffoon you would likely say no.

It's like a guy in a clown outfit saying the nobody wants open heart surgery beacuse everyone turns him down when he asks.

Re: U.S. eliminates human controls requirement for fully automated vehicles

#169

Post by ravenstine »

pizza wrote: post #7

Reading between the lines here this just makes me think that the regulator has become captured by the industry. This is like removing human control on an autonomous Russian roulette revolver that shoots to the side if it detects a person in front of the barrel, then praying for the best.

I get what you're saying, but the Russian roulette analogy is a kind of straw man. Do you agree? Or is it that you think that we shouldn't allow potentially dangerous technologies to perform without human supervision?
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