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Single psilocybin dose may make lasting personality change

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161–170 of 173 posts

Re: Single psilocybin dose may make lasting personality change

#161

i took mushrooms once, and documented my experience. i've gone back and re-read it several times, and each time i do so, i both laugh like crazy and realize i was getting glimpses of ideas i'm only now starting to understand. if you want to read it, here it is: http://dl.dropbox.com/u/9465583/ShroomReport.pdf

Somewhat odd to have used OJ as the mixer; vitamin-C is often considered to accelerate the breakdown of psychoactive substances (especially those like MDMA and LSD), so would normally be avoided until you feel you're 'done' and want things to end.

Vitamin-C does virtually nothing for the trip. It's all placebo.

Now, if you grind the mushrooms up and let them site in lemon juice for 30+ minutes. That will definitely accelerate the time you reach the peak of the trip. The acids in the lemon juice break down the mushrooms so the stomach can digest them more quickly.

Re: Single psilocybin dose may make lasting personality change

#162
Psychedelics are definitely interesting. I recently came across Ibogaine (http://www.erowid.org/experiences/subs/exp_Ibogaine.shtml ) derived from roots of the iboga tree. Surprisingly many experiencers report to have seen a man point towards a door or convey some messages to them in their 36hr long trips!

A substance that can give very similar results to multiple users is definitely worth the research.

Re: Single psilocybin dose may make lasting personality change

#163
post #74

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"Feeling Good" by David Burns. Sounds like a pop-psych title, but it is not. At 28 years of age, I am fairly certain this is the most important book I have ever and will ever read in my entire life (but then I desperately needed it - it is the user's manual to my brain that has allowed me to debug so much of my problematic thought processes).

I will second this. I read it over 20 years ago, when I was 17, and it changed my life. It is basically a friendly introduction to how to apply cognitive therapy to yourself. I've read a lot of books in my life that I said "Wow" about, but not many that I still say "Wow" about 20 years later.

I was about to say I envy you for having 10 extra years to apply clearer thinking, but the funny thing is I discovered the book years ago and wasn't interested in getting past the first chapter. It was only when I crashed hard due to some messy circumstances that I realised I needed to go back to it and read it properly (and to perform the exercises!).

Re: Single psilocybin dose may make lasting personality change

#164
post #74

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"Feeling Good" by David Burns. Sounds like a pop-psych title, but it is not. At 28 years of age, I am fairly certain this is the most important book I have ever and will ever read in my entire life (but then I desperately needed it - it is the user's manual to my brain that has allowed me to debug so much of my problematic thought processes).

I third this. I highly recommend this book, especially to people who are analytically oriented.

I agree with the 'analytically oriented' part, although I've been wondering recently if that description is not just a indication of somebody who's willing to work systematically through something and apply it consistently over a course of time.

People who don't realise that change is difficult will seek out books that promise merely reading something that hadn't known about before and simple attitude shifts will bring about change (hence the market for "The Secret" and its ilk).

I understand this because that was my default thinking too. In time, experience led me to identifying this hidden belief and challenging it. Then I stumbled on my #2 book which describes the model for change that I use: "Changing for Good" by Prochaska et al. Just as with "Feeling Good", there are so many pages I'd read and think "Ahh I know exactly when I fall into THAT trap".

Re: Single psilocybin dose may make lasting personality change

#165

A few things I'm going to say. First, these drugs aren't "hallucinogens". They're psychedelics (mind-revealing). A hallucination is a false perception which the person believes to be real; visuals are perceptions that the person knows are not real, such as "light shows". Except at very high doses, these drugs don't produce hallucinations per se . Other drugs can, but LSD and psilocybin generally do not. Ok, that may…

Non-experience is not the only "failure mode" possible in meditation. Most practitioners find that, as with many spiritual or psychological practices, things get more difficult before they improve. Having partial insight into the nature of reality, without the non-identification that comes with awakening, can make one's suffering a lot more apparent and "real" feeling. For more in depth discussion of the kind of insi…

Having partial insight into the nature of reality, without the non-identification that comes with awakening, can make one's suffering a lot more apparent and "real" feeling.

Fair, but this is a problem with any kind of learning. "A little knowledge is a dangerous thing." It applies to going off to college as well.

Personally, I believe that issues I mention above apply to psychedelic use as well, i.e., it's possible to stumble into early stages of insight via drug use. This can be even trickier than when it happens via meditation, because typically drug users are not equipped with a framework to make sense of what's happening.

With drugs, you can't get out of the experience easily. High-power dissociatives can lead to a state where the person forgets being on a drug entirely, and time dilation can make a few hours of hell feel like months or years. That's the dangerous part. Drug use in an unwise setting or with the wrong people can lead to a panicky thought-loop that characterizes most bad trips. In the worst cases, it causes HPPD or even PTSD, both of which can be long-term afflictions.

If you're meditating and it becomes uncomfortable, you can stop, open your eyes, and come back to a normal state within a couple of minutes. Meditation can lead to difficult emotions (as can reading a book, taking a walk, etc.) but one isn't stuck in the experience for hours. Meditation, over time, gives you control over your state of consciousness; psychedelics hand that control over to a chemical.

Does meditation on its own ever lead to things like psychosis? Well, I've practiced at a number of meditation centers in the U.S. and Asia, and I've certainly heard plenty of stories of what happens when psychologically unstable people come to do an intense period of practice...

Disclaimer: I'm not a psychiatrist.

A few things. First, a lot of psychologically unstable people use "Eastern" approaches like meditation and yoga in lieu of proven psychiatric treatments. Bad idea. That's quite dangerous. Accomplished zen masters may have no need whatsoever to pursue mainstream psychiatric help, but that doesn't apply to the rest of us. The idea that one can overcome biological mental problems through "spiritual" means alone is dangerous, wrong, and no meditation teacher worth his salt would insinuate such a thing.

Most Buddhist adepts that I've known have said they would never advise someone to stop taking psychiatric medications, any more than they'd advise someone to stop taking heart medicine.

There's a misconception about Buddhist attitudes toward "suffering", the first noble truth being quoted as "All life is suffering." Actually, it's closer to, "There is suffering." The word for suffering, dukkha, just means painful emotion. Painful emotions are a part of human existence because we grow old and die, because we long for permanence in a dynamic world, and because we're biological organisms prone to Hamlet's "thousand natural shocks". That doesn't mean that clinical depression should go untreated. Not in the least. It means that even psychologically healthy people are prone to unpleasant emotions as long as they are in cyclic existence (which is not depressing or "dark", just obvious.)

Second, dramatic lifestyle changes are always risky for unstable people or even stable ones. That could be moving to another country, having a child, changing career, or (yes) starting a spiritual practice. It's best to ease into such things gradually if possible.

Third, going from no meditation at all to 2-week retreats is not a good idea. It's not a sign of spiritual progress. To me, it looks like a sign of mania. Again, the danger there is not from the spiritual practice, but from the frenetic, manic state of mind that produced the sudden change in spiritual orientation.

Re: Single psilocybin dose may make lasting personality change

#166

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There's just one thing I'm going to say, which young people also should know - are you sure what you're buying is what you think it is? The one time I tried 'LSD', it wasn't.

that's LSD. if it's shrooms, you can tell whether something looks like mushrooms right? that means there's three options: 1) it'll kill you 2) it'll do nothing or make you nauseous 3) it's the real thing nobody's gonna sell you poisonous mushrooms or they'll be in big trouble and be out of clientele really fast. shrooms that look like proper shrooms but do nothing, I don't know if they even exist. in both (unlikely)…

People have died trying to pick psychedelic mushrooms in the wild and getting it wrong. Then again, that danger exists with regular food mushrooms in the wild as well. You just really need to know what you're doing.

From a dealer, you're very unlikely to get toadstools, for the reasons you described, but non-psychedelic mushrooms (even from the grocery store) are frequently dosed with cheap and often legal, but dangerous "research chemicals" and sold as psilocybin mushrooms. This was done with LSD back when it was cheap and readily available as well.

Re: Single psilocybin dose may make lasting personality change

#167
post #91
post #52

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Hey, I like who I am too. But I know that I can be better.

I want to be better, too, and I'm continually working at becoming such. But I'm not convinced that tripping is a guaranteed way to betterness, nor how much better any accidental betterness would really be.

Nothing is a guarantee in life.

Re: Single psilocybin dose may make lasting personality change

#168
I just took the test here http://www.123test.com/personality-test/ , which appears to measure this "openness" trait, and it says I'm already on the far end of open. My tradition doesn't contain, and I don't think I've ever experienced, "sartori", but if I ever get a tinge of boredom, I start tying to imagine the scale and complexity of the subatomic and relativistic models of the phenomena I'm experiencing (e.g., photons as probability waves moving at light speed and then an infinitesimal fraction of them collapsing in interactions with atoms in my retina), and I'm instantly fascinated. So the question is, would a psychedelic experience really change me?

Re: Single psilocybin dose may make lasting personality change

#169

A few things I'm going to say. First, these drugs aren't "hallucinogens". They're psychedelics (mind-revealing). A hallucination is a false perception which the person believes to be real; visuals are perceptions that the person knows are not real, such as "light shows". Except at very high doses, these drugs don't produce hallucinations per se . Other drugs can, but LSD and psilocybin generally do not. Ok, that may…

Not all psychedelics are illegal. There is salvia and dxm; which are perfectly legal in many states but are more powerful than mushrooms (psilocybin). DXM is closer to ketamine, but it appears that all of them are capable of having psychedelic (revealing) properties.

Legality doesn't always define harm. I think THC (active psychedelic ingredient in cannabis sativa) is much, much safer to do than DXM.

Another interesting one is kratom. It's an opioid drug which is highly illegal in Thailand but perfectly legal in US (can be ordered online, which is awesome). It is also much more addictive than marijuana (being a pseudo-opiate and all) but obviously not close to being as addictive as diamorphine/oxycodone.

Seriously, why is marijuana illegal again?

Re: Single psilocybin dose may make lasting personality change

#170

i took mushrooms once, and documented my experience. i've gone back and re-read it several times, and each time i do so, i both laugh like crazy and realize i was getting glimpses of ideas i'm only now starting to understand. if you want to read it, here it is: http://dl.dropbox.com/u/9465583/ShroomReport.pdf

How is that enlightening? The doc makes you sound like an imbecile.

You're missing the point here. The author was typing from a world where only a few have been, where things melt into the floor, music turns into objects, objects turns into people, and your mind is on a huge emotional rollercoaster. Imagine being fired, then getting a date, then you remember your sister died (many years ago), then you realize you are awesome, then you feel AWFUL because you said something you shouldn't have at that party two months ago, then you realize everything is actually one whirling organism of energy and you can never die, then you hear loud noises and think it's the cops and get scared. All of this in a very very short span of time.

You start sketching or typing and you realize you can see blood flowing through your hands, and then you realize you're actually an animal for whom it's hard to form coherent thoughts because everything is just so wobbly and undefined. Then you become amazed at how human language is actually a form of learned "symbols->sounds" synesthesia. And writing is "sound->visuals" synesthesia.

People have pissed their pants from fear on psychedelics, the fact that the author of the document was able to jot down his experience is a remarkable addition to the knowledge of humans.

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