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Every employee who leaves Apple becomes an ‘associate’
161–170 of 337 posts
Re: Every employee who leaves Apple becomes an ‘associate’
#162Earlier quoted context omitted.
"Well, he went on medical leave, so we changed his title to Mainstream Medicine Denier and then Organ System Pentester." Reference: https://apecsec.org/steve-jobs-liver-transplant-controversy/
Not funny.
Neither is denying treatment for a curable disease.
Re: Every employee who leaves Apple becomes an ‘associate’
#163Apple, a company notorious for secrecy, may have very legitimate reasons for canvassing employee job titles to a single innocuous string.
Unless apple signed a contract with another party that promises accurate and historical internal job title disclosure, this is the fault of the validation services who a promising something they’re not able to deliver.
Re: Every employee who leaves Apple becomes an ‘associate’
#164Earlier quoted context omitted.
In that case it is interesting that the law does not mandate this. In France you get a paper with the name of the company and the dates of your employment. This is the only information a company can provide, and confirm when requested. The concept of referrals does not exist in practical terms (I had to give some once for an American company and gave good friends who said I was wonderful) - because they would not wor…
There's no law in the US unfortunately so there's no obligation on the employer to provide this information either. There is something called "The Work Number" that certain employers subscribe to for employer verification, but that is not accepted by USCIS.
In that case can't you prove this via your pay slips? Or your tax filings?
Re: Every employee who leaves Apple becomes an ‘associate’
#165Earlier quoted context omitted.
They're not "lying about their level". Contra the article, the term "associate" does not in fact mean "junior employee"; I can think of huge companies where everyone's formal title is "associate" regardless of seniority, in the same way that Bell Labs did MTS. Further, nobody is "bending over backwards" to defend anybody; they're writing their own take on what happened. You're asked by the guidelines to assume good f…
This would make sense if people’s titles were “associate” while employed at Apple, but they are not. It’s the title change that seems weird and vindictive. It’s not like Apple has to report a title at all to external databases.
They may as well say all former employees are Vice Presidents then, if it makes people feel better. It's just as meaningless as saying all former employees are "associates".
To add another anecdote: I work for a non-FAANG big tech co, which also provides former employees the 1-800 number that a new employer can use to verify employment; they do not reveal tiles or salary. As a manager, I cannot provide a reference for former employees.
Re: Every employee who leaves Apple becomes an ‘associate’
#166Earlier quoted context omitted.
I cannot wait to check back in with you when you're trying to get a new job and negotiating salary. > If I want my employer to know what number Apple assigned me, I’ll tell them. Literally this article is about employers being like "hmm you told me this number but we don't believe you because Apple says its wrong"
Maybe, but my experience working mostly at smaller companies is that nobody really cares. If you say you’re a level X they’ll say, “okay prove it. Demonstrate through your accomplishments and knowledge you’re a level X” not “Prove it. Show us your documentation, citizen.” I also can’t imagine verifying or asking HR to verify someone’s level or salary. They’d start questioning if I understood the point of the intervie…
I also can’t imagine verifying or asking HR to verify someone’s level or salary. They’d start questioning if I understood the point of the interview.
The whole prior salary thing is very touchy now, and in some states potential employers aren't allowed to ask.
The company my wife works for will only confirm whether an employee was employed at a given date, or not. No salary information. No titles. Nothing other than a yes, or no.
Re: Every employee who leaves Apple becomes an ‘associate’
#167Earlier quoted context omitted.
Since it will be widely known among peer organizations that Apple has this policy, the presence or absence of the "Associate" title achieves this, in effect, does it not? I think it's unlikely someone seeking a 600K job will be mistaken for having been a retail employee.
Based on the article it obviously isn’t widely enough known to prevent people from losing job offers over it.
And in that scenario, Apple is the bad actor for referring to a non-C-suite employee as an associate, not the employer who fired someone over unverified information and poor assumptions?
Re: Every employee who leaves Apple becomes an ‘associate’
#168I think it's really important to note that Apple does not have to share their database with these third party companies, but not only do they choose to do so they also make sure the information is wrong. Apple is, essentially, being unethical on two levels. They're selling or sharing employee information, and they're purposefully making it so that information is wrong. I want to stress this- I ask during the intervie…
It's a really good point about Apple willfully using an Experian service as part of this strategy. As to defamation, I don't think that's clear. Apple is intentionally using the term to be as legally vague as possible about how it externally reports its past connection to its ex-payees. This is mostly liability management, essentially saying less that can't be called false, instead of the defamatory tactic of saying more that is not true.
as·so·ci·ate (n)
1. a partner or colleague in business or at work.
2. a person with limited or subordinate membership of an organization.
3. joined or connected with an organization or business.
- Source: Google search results fed by Oxford Languages
Re: Every employee who leaves Apple becomes an ‘associate’
#169[deleted]
Re: Every employee who leaves Apple becomes an ‘associate’
#170> Apple offers a phone number employers can call to verify titles of former Apple employees. A voice recording on that line directs callers to the web site for InVerify, an employment verification service provider owned by credit agency Equifax. When The Washington Post called InVerify’s customer support number, a customer service representative said Apple is the only company he knew of that changes job titles of emp…
I worked at Apple and I’m okay they do this. My role is my information to share. I don’t need that sitting in some database in perpetuity.
You have a privilege; relevant parties believe your resume without needing to verify it. This behavior by Apple is disproportionately harmful to those without this privilege (eg. people on certain visas).