YouTube suspends Rand Paul for seven days • Hacker News Board

Re: YouTube suspends Rand Paul for seven days

#161

Post by lp0_on_fire » Wed, Aug 11, 2021, 6:31 PM UTC

javajosh wrote: post #66

mimixco wrote: post #51

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Lots of misinformation on YouTube is bad for people and isn't stopped. And I would hardly call Google, YouTube's owners, a "company with a conscience" since nearly their entire business is based on predatory surveillance advertising. In a democratic society, the elected leaders need to communicate their ideas, however wrongheaded. If they aren't allowed to communicate, how do they reach their electors and how do they…

YouTube is NOT the government. If Rand Paul was arrested for his speech, that would be a violation of his First Amendment rights and wrong. The right to speak does not compel a private platform to carry that speech. Certainly Fox News gives RP and his ilk plenty of opportunity to spread their harmful propaganda. So it's not like, even in a practical sense, his ability to express himself has been curtailed.

> Certainly Fox News gives RP and his ilk

Tell us how you really feel about people on the right.

Something tells me you'd be singing a different story if it were someone you agreed with.

Re: YouTube suspends Rand Paul for seven days

#162

Post by andybak » Wed, Aug 11, 2021, 6:32 PM UTC

chlodwig wrote: post #143

andybak wrote: post #118

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think I captured most of that in my use of the word "usually".

No the word "usually" does not capture that at all. I and a lot of other people spend a lot more time at the office, at the gym, at school, at entertainment venues with friends than we spend at grocery stores.

In this sense "usually" applies to enforcement which has plenty of exceptions for the cases you raise.

It obviously depends on country and region and the stage of the pandemic, but in the UK there's been plenty of wiggle room at various times.

Re: YouTube suspends Rand Paul for seven days

#163

Post by andybak » Wed, Aug 11, 2021, 6:32 PM UTC

lp0_on_fire wrote: post #160

andybak wrote: post #140

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> well not to me, when you wearing mask when interacting with me you are not doing a good thing for me. Yes I am. I am reducing the chance of infection passing between us. The degree to which I'm reducing the chance is uncertain (which is the original point under discussion). I think we probably won't get any further benefit from this discussion. I've lost patience with a lot of people over this. I find it slightly d…

Sounds to me like you're the one who has made it an identity issue.

Other than an off the cuff insult, what do you mean by that?

Re: YouTube suspends Rand Paul for seven days

#164

Post by nradov » Wed, Aug 11, 2021, 6:36 PM UTC

kiba wrote: post #47

makomk wrote: post #20

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yeah, it really doesn't seem all that plausible that cloth masks do much at this point. Not only was there never good evidence for them working, the best ones only block something like 90% of virus-bearing particles. To put this in context current estimates seem to be that people infected with Delta produce 100-1000x the amount of virus that previous variants did; the effect of mask wearing is absolutely miniscule co…

That's why we social distance and use other methods. It's defense in depth. Though it seemed that these days we mostly stopped social distancing.

You obviously can't expect people to continue social distancing. It's not sustainable, and harms mental health.

Re: YouTube suspends Rand Paul for seven days

#165

Post by lp0_on_fire » Wed, Aug 11, 2021, 6:37 PM UTC

andybak wrote: post #163

lp0_on_fire wrote: post #160

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Sounds to me like you're the one who has made it an identity issue.

Other than an off the cuff insult, what do you mean by that?

In this thread you've repeatedly demonstrated you're not willing to consider other peoples concerns about it then declared you're "running out of patience" with people who aren't on the same page as you.

That to me suggests you've made that position part and parcel of your identity.

Re: YouTube suspends Rand Paul for seven days

#166

Post by nradov » Wed, Aug 11, 2021, 6:47 PM UTC

hedgehog wrote: post #77

Even poorly fitted cloth masks or a bandana will do a little bit for source control. That's useful to help contain spread, we just need to push the exponent on infection growth below 1.0. COVID's vicious feature is not that it's extraordinarily dangerous on a per-case basis, it's that it spreads so easily and even in people without symptoms. Clearly it would be better if everyone wore N95 quality masks, and that's th…

That's not scientifically correct. Because the vaccines are not fully sterilizing and there are multiple animal host species the virus will never be eradicated regardless of what we do. It's now endemic. You can't expect people to wear masks indefinitely.

Re: YouTube suspends Rand Paul for seven days

#167

Post by andybak » Wed, Aug 11, 2021, 6:53 PM UTC

lp0_on_fire wrote: post #165

andybak wrote: post #163

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Other than an off the cuff insult, what do you mean by that?

In this thread you've repeatedly demonstrated you're not willing to consider other peoples concerns about it then declared you're "running out of patience" with people who aren't on the same page as you. That to me suggests you've made that position part and parcel of your identity.

There's a difference between not considering other people's concerns vs disagreeing with their rationalizations of them.

> That to me suggests you've made that position part and parcel of your identity.

I genuinely feel like I'm making a fairly sober, rational and considered point. (Of course everyone thinks that of themselves but hey)

Re: YouTube suspends Rand Paul for seven days

#168

Post by nradov » Wed, Aug 11, 2021, 6:57 PM UTC

andybak wrote: post #36

makomk wrote: post #20

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yeah, it really doesn't seem all that plausible that cloth masks do much at this point. Not only was there never good evidence for them working, the best ones only block something like 90% of virus-bearing particles. To put this in context current estimates seem to be that people infected with Delta produce 100-1000x the amount of virus that previous variants did; the effect of mask wearing is absolutely miniscule co…

I don't follow this reasoning. An imperfect mask is surely going to result in a borderline contacts with infection being non-infections. The debate is "by how much" and without really clear evidence to the contrary, the precautionary principle wins. Wearing masks is usually only a minor inconvenience. I'm gobsmacked how it's become such a battleground.

How long are you expecting people to wear masks? What are the exit criteria? It obviously isn't sustainable for most people. The virus is now endemic in the worldwide human population, plus some animal species. It can't be eradicated even with high vaccination rates. It's inevitable that eventually all of us will be exposed. The only question is when.

Wearing masks and other non-pharmaceutical interventions can be useful under some limited circumstances to avoid overwhelming healthcare systems. But we need to think longer term than just the next few weeks.

Re: YouTube suspends Rand Paul for seven days

#169

Post by dantheman » Wed, Aug 11, 2021, 7:03 PM UTC

Mountain_Skies wrote: post #107

dantheman wrote: post #88

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Youtube most definitely has the right to determine what they're going to show on their platform. You may not agree with their choices, but it's their right. It is easy and cheap to host videos online that can be easily linked to and viewed by anyone.

When this all turns around on you (and history says it will because it always does), remember you asked for your voice and the voice of those with similar views to yours to be silenced. Don't expect those whose voices you cheered to be muffled to come to your rescue. Yelling hypocrite won't save you. It's guaranteed to happen. There's no if here, only a when.

I'm not asking for any voice to be silenced, and I strongly disagree with youtube's censorship - but I acknowledge it's their right to do it. We can criticize them all we want, build alternates, boycott them, etc.

Re: YouTube suspends Rand Paul for seven days

#170

Post by mensetmanusman » Wed, Aug 11, 2021, 7:03 PM UTC

skybrian wrote: post #79

mensetmanusman wrote: post #8

‘masks’ is about as vague as ‘food’ There are good and bad masks, just as there is good and bad food. A cloth mask will not protect you against an aerosol (note: am a researcher who has seen the electron microscopy images proving this), that is why N95s are mandated with no beards in any ISO work environment where you are subjected to aerosol risk. The inability of public dialog on this nuance is just a reflection of…

It seems like thinking in terms of works/doesn’t work is excessively binary, as is will/won’t protect you. Some masks are more effective than others. If you insist on 100% protection then n95 masks don’t “work” and neither do vaccines but that’s misleading as a public heath campaign.

By aerosol risk, I’m assuming being indoors for extended periods of time with an aerosol risk, e.g. a work environment; would you feel comfortable being in a covid ward with a cloth mask, or would you wear an N95 (which are now readily available), etc.